Open Thread


For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: New CNN poll shows Hillary and Barack beating all GOP presidential candidates in head-to-head matchups...

Clinton 50%, McCain 48%

Obama 49%, McCain 48%

Clinton 56%, Huckabee 42%

Obama 58%, Huckabee 39%

Clinton 55%, Giuliani 42%

Obama 56%, Giuliani 40%

Clinton 58%, Romney 40%

Obama 59%, Romney 37%

Thoughts?

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After NH, I don't trust

After NH, I don't trust polls at all.

As an example: the other night I got an automated call survey from ABC news. They are apparently assessing Michael Bloomberg's chances. Asked, in variety of matchups, with Bloomberg as the third option, who I would vote for.

I lied.

I'm sick and tired of the media making polls the story. Then they act upset when people lie; as if it's their God-given right to know what would happen if the election were tomorrow. Polls are good for two things: giving the talking heads something to yammer about; and allowing politicians to constantly fine-tune their message according to public reaction.

Neither of which is a good thing, IMO.

No lesson was learned?

I agree with motherbelt..after NH, maybe the media should get out of the polling business

Hey..if the polls are as

Hey..if the polls are as accurate as the MSM say they are, maybe all the Republicans should just quit, and we could just have a head-to-head contest of Clinton against Obama. What do you think?

I think the point that is

I think the point that is being missed is there isn't 1 conservative on that list.

Yeah, where is Thompson on

Yeah, where is Thompson on that list?
 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

New Hampshire Residents do not know the Real John McCain

These head to head polls are meaningless until after the primaries since the GOP is split so much. McCain pulls many clueless independent voters who are ignorant about the facts on John McCain.

Betrayal, deceit, corruption and John McCain (The U.S. Veteran Dispatch)

"While still married to Carol, McCain began an adulterous relationship with Cindy. He married Cindy in May 1980 - just a month after dumping his crippled wife and securing a divorce."

Abortion:

John McCain Supports Embryonic Stem Cell Research (Audio)
McCain Softens Abortion Stand (The Washington Post)

"But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations." - John McCain

Fiscal Record:

McCain Boasts That He Voted Against The Bush Tax Cuts (Video)
McCain Would Vote Against Tax Cuts Again (The Club for Growth)

- McCain sponsored and voted for an enormous 282% tax increase on cigarettes in 1998
- McCain was one of only two Republican senators to oppose the 2001 tax cuts
- McCain was one of only three Republican senators to oppose the 2003 reductions
- McCain supported an amendment sponsored by Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) against full repeal of the Death Tax
- McCain voted against repealing the Death Tax in 2002

Foreign Policy:

McCain to Close Gitmo: "The first day I am President" (Video)

Global Warming:

McCain and Lieberman Push for New Anti-Global Warming Legislation (The National Center for Public Policy Research)
Senators McCain and Lieberman Propose Energy Tax (The National Center for Public Policy Research)

Illegal Immigration:

John McCain gets a 'D' on his Immigration Voting Report Card (Americans for Better Immigration)
John McCain Praises Pro-illegal Protests (NewsMax)
McCain Voted For Illegal Immigrants To Collect Social Security (UC Daily News)

Veterans:

McCain Can't Buy His Way Out of Votes Against Funding for Veterans

- McCain Voted Against $19 Billion for Military Hospitals
- McCain Voted Against Amendment to Provide $2.8 Billion For Veterans' Medical Care
- McCain Voted Against 2005 Amendment to Provide Guaranteed Funding Stream for Veterans' Health Care
- McCain Voted Against Establishing $1 Billion Trust Fund to Provide Improvements to Military and Veterans' Health Facilities
- McCain Voted Against Adding $1.5 billion to Veterans' Medical Services in FY 2007 by Closing Corporate Tax Loopholes
- McCain Voted Against Mandatory Funding of $6.9 Billion in FY 2007 and $104 Billion Over Five Years for Veterans' Health Care

Huckabee: Raising Taxes OK
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource

It's like President Kerry said ...

That's funny Fox has just the opposite.

Polls are for lonely people seeking other people who need numbers to decide between values.

 

 

The Source....

Clinton News Network polls are as reliable as Pravda headlines.

CNN

That is exactly the point. CNN is a flack network for the Clintons. When it comes to polls and research it all depends on your sampling methodology as well as you the pattern and substance of the questioning.

Regardless, this or any general election poll is incredibly irrelevant at this stage and will remain that way until there is a general election campaign. First you have to have direct debates. Then I can only imagine how many 527 groups are out there waiting to unleash the  truth about Hillary and Bill - then what will these polls look like (other than the Clinton News Network).

 

CNN Polls

Hill and Barry ahead....but by damn little and its early.

These polls are next to useless

Because any one answering such a poll is thinking of their candidate. There are far too many yet in the running (or out of the running) to start asking about two person matchups.

Besides, it's well documented that democrats are much more likely to answer polls then republicans are, thus causing over sampling of democrats.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.

I'm sure it's a bias poll as always, but

I think we are in trouble. The media are definitely driving this it's working.

This is only a reflection

This is only a reflection of name recognition. Its why companies advertise. Why do people buy brand name products that come off the same assembly line as the generic? Name recognition. Why do candidates without money lose? Name recognition. Why do polls always close as election day approaches? Because people begin to pay attention and the lesser known candidate may finally get some attention.

In addition to all of that keep in mind this is CNN. The Clinton News Network. They are not above using 75% Democrats in their sample. How does Hillary get in the mid to upper 50%'s when she has about 45-50% of the country who say they will never vote for her? That makes this poll very suspect. She should never get above 50%.

no doubt Carville

sold them the phone list, did anyone else read the negative approval of all the repubs?  While we know from many sources that Hilda has the largest negative of all time, yet they all are more negative (60-70%) than her (except rino McCain)

GoHunter08

Thoughts?????

Absolutely.  Why would anyone give any credence to any poll published by CNN?  At some point we need to discourage these morons from wasting their time and resources doing this nonsense.  CNN has no credibility and until the MSM and other outlets make it clear that their polling is not taken seriously, they're going to continue.  Why not go for the gold, and have a CNN/Reuters/BBC poll? 

You left out

Al-Jazeera...

agreed

Not just NH; I have always taken polls with a grain of salt, as it were.  The are often wrong, but they can be fun to watch and it does give the talking heads on all those TV channels something to talk about so as to keep their jobs. 

A GLARING OMISSION

You know how teleprompt readers always fall all over themselves to sound intelligent by saying "the margin of error is plus or minus..."

Assuming this poll was conducted with the usual 1,000 adults, the margin of error is at least 3 points.

The correct headline: "McCain in Dead Heat with All Likely Democrat Party Candidates"

Or "McCain Easily Rivals Top Democrat Contenders"

Or how about "Clinton, Obama, Unable to Beat McCain in General Election"

Very good points.  But the

Very good points.  But the rub here is that too many voters are quite satisfied with sound bite, drive by media snake oil like this and they will take that all the way to the ACTUAL polls and vote accordingly.  

http://news.yahoo.co... Reces

http://news.yahoo.co...

Recession on the horizon seems to be a settled on fact.

Dems beat Republican

Ok so the poll says... do we say."Game, Set,Match" and go home?

I guess we should let the left tilting states and the media dictate who our candidate will be. Where is the conservative in this list? The only one coming close enough for me is Romney. I notice NO Thompson?

I guess we conservatives should just stay home or only go to the voting booth to vote for out local issues.

these primarys are too early and too rigged.

 

Delsa...

That's exactly the message they want to convey without having to come out and say it.

Polling... the easy way to throw elections. 

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

Free Speech???

interesting commentary about PC Canada

Is anyone else wondering why a supposedly free and liberal western democracy is questioning someone about the intent of their speech?

GoHunter08

According to CNN, Fred isn't

According to CNN, Fred isn't a possible Republican candidate! Very interesting.

The only polling I trust is

The only polling I trust is done by the Olberman Institute.

Mass Out in Front with GW nonsense

Massachusetts is tapping in to the GW hysteria -- once again by expanding Government mandates and dipping into your wallet.

According to the Boston Globe, the state Senate passed a law requiring home sellers to conduct and pay for an energy audit before the home sale. It would establish a state committee that would design an energy-efficiency rating to be used on homes. This could take various forms, such as a single performance number for each house or a comparison of the house's oil, natural gas, and electricity use or other efficiency measures to a minimum standard.

The key here is that this is going to be mandated on the homeowners, not provided as an option to home buyers. In addition, this so-called committee is just another taxpayer burden.

Why can't the Government stop meddling in the private affairs of citizens? Massachusetts has no business doing this; but, if you have a Democratic Government (Govenor and Legislature), this is what you can expect. The Nanny state at its best.

___________________________________ 

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber

This is going to be a gold

This is going to be a gold mine for someone, of course. It will be interesting to see who goes into the "business" of doing energy audits, and what they will charge for them.

It doesn't say in the article, but it would be interesting to see who, in the business sector, is supporting this bill.

Yeah, where is

Yeah, where is Thompson?

"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life," Richard Lindzen - March 2007.

SnT...

They are afraid of him, so it's better for them to just ignore him. 

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

Well the pollsters need to

Well the pollsters need to call me; Thompson's got my vote!

"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life," Richard Lindzen - March 2007.

CNN POLL NUMBERS

(C)linton (N)ews (N)etwork poll numbers = (B)arbara (S)treisand

If Clinton wins

If Clinton wins the Democratic nomination it means that the Democrats have ditched the African-American Barack Obama. The GOP nominee should choose an African American as a running mate. This would throw the cat among the pigeons.

VP

My choice would be Michael Steele

Chai

“The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.” —Groucho Marx

Zogby's commentary

PS--never polled???

go here or never again complain 'they never ask me'

GoHunter08

Zogby's Special Sauce

Zogby says:

"We will pore through the data and try to come up with something more definitive, but those are my early observations. There is much speculation that Senator Clinton’s crying incident may have offered voters – especially women – a peek at the human side of someone who is often seen as scripted. I think she also scored points during the ABC debate Saturday night when she declared, amid a discussion about the country’s desire for a change in direction, that electing a woman would represent a big change in itself. Her numbers did go up in that last 24–hour period."

Zogby also thought the

Zogby also thought the Lancet article claiming 650,000 dead Iraqi's was a valid study!

"For those who wanted to believe it, it gave them a new number to circulate, [and] it was a defining moment" in attitudes toward the war, said pollster John Zogby, who commended the report in a CNN interview.

No bias here.  Everyone please keep moving Left.

1984 is already. 

Killing them with kindness isn't working.  Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.

Of Course He Did

Turns out that Daddy Warbucks George Soros helped to fund that Lancet study

George Soros - A case study in BDS

I'm not shocked.

If you told me that Soros paid to have Saddam's WMD moved to Syria, I wouldn't be shocked either.

 

Newsbusters. Log on and find out What the heck is so yummy over here!

Soros donated about one

Soros donated about one half and "anonymous" donors the other half.

Something's rotten in Denmark.

Where ever Soros meddles, people either suffer or die, whether fellow Jews he pointed out for deportation to concentration camps or on the spot murder during WWII in Europe, to the gold mines of Eastern Europe that will remain fallow and polluting and worthless to the suffering townspeople, to teaming up with the Clintons or "scientists" to manipulate US political outcomes.

Killing them with kindness isn't working.  Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.

Polls?....We don't need no

Polls?....We don't need no stinking polls. Afterthought:Remember the Chris Matthews polling curve.(White People lie.)

Numbers May Be Wrong, But Trend Is Obvious

I've voted GOP since 1972, and will again in 2008, but our current crop of candidates makes me wince with pain.  I'm backing Romney, but I don't think the guy can get within ten points of Obama or Clinton.  Also, the economy is almost always the trump card in American elections.  We are going to have very slow growth, possibly no growth, for the next 3-6 months.  American voters will have the word "Recession" screamed at them 24/7, and even if there is no recession, that's going to do serious damage to the GOP.

AND

And we should pay attention to a CNN poll, why?

Mostly to laugh at the

Mostly to laugh at the Clinton News Network when it inevitably gets it wrong.

How often are polls wrong?

The general election is 10 months away, it will be almost impossible to get a feel of what will happen so far in the future.

Thing thing is, the polls got NH wrong. Perhaps the tear thing worked. Polls are almost always accurate when the election is within few days.

The polling clearly shows how the nation feels at the present time and I do not believe they are biased. If the majority of the people in this country prefferred a GOP candidate, that is what the polls will show.

Romney time machine

How about the polls on the writers strike?

I rather enjoyed a recent poll that had almost 60% of Americans not giving a rats $$s about the writers strike shutting down TV shows and movie production.

Its not that I don't like writers in general, but the Leftist buffoons who monopolize Hollywood these days have earned the pain and disregard they are now getting.

They continue to obsess on attacking evil Christians and Republicans while ignoring out of cowardice and ideology the global Islamist mafia which is shutting down free speech around the world by murder and or issuing death threats against any who would stand against their totalitarian fascism.

Come on Hollywood writers!  Grow some gonads!

 

CNN Poll?

Don't forget, about a year ago CNN got rid of their longtime polling partner, the hugely respcted Gallup Organization, which has been doing polls since Dick Cheney was a baby Halliburton stockholder in the 1930s.

Who did they get to replace Gallup? Why Vinod Gupta, of course, who has been a close friend of Bill and Hill for at least 15 years.

THE Most Busted Name in News.....

Came across this yesterday

Came across this yesterday on Townhall....Mike Gallagher has a great column on the Clintons Playing Dirty and getting away with it.

Special analysis of HRC's "spade work" comment.

Also, Judicial Watch has put out their list of 2007's "Ten Most Wanted Corrupt Politians"

It's close, but Democrats win, 6-4.

There is one point that CNN

There is one point that CNN over looks. The Democratic race is down to 2 people. Ours is down to 4 maybe 5. I would think (hopefully) that once we work it down to one or two**, we will unite. I do not trust many polls especially CNN!!

 

 (if they are conservative**)

 

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

When are you guys going to

When are you guys going to learn that you CANNOT TRUST LIBERALS TO CONDUCT POLLS? If you look at the internals of most CNN or ABC or NBC polls you'll find them polling like 60/40 Dem/Rep. Come on man, buy a vowel and get a clue! How on earth can a statistical sampling of a NON-RANDOM group of less than 1500 people mean ANYTHING? We know for a fact that they poll in districts that were gerrymandered to be liberal more often than the opposite, the purpose of their polls is to SHAPE public opinion, not to "record" it. 

The only people voting at

The only people voting at CNN are liberals so I am not surprised by the results.

You Forgot One

CBS "News" has been busted regularly for oversampling Democrats, usually by about 10 to 15%

I know Keith. I dont trust

I know Keith. I dont trust liberals to flush the toilet.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Why are people surprised?

Why are people surprised? Have you EVER seen a poll during an election year that says anything but the dims are gonna win, and win big? This is why those idiots fall for the conspiracy theories! Their entire world, media wise, is telling them they are gonna win by landslides, and when reality hits, they start hollaring Diebold!

The MSM is really not serving the public. On the other hand, it does give them false hope. Who knows, if they thought they had to, they might work harder, so on second thought, I am so happy the MSM is full of $#^%!

So I ain't complainin'!

.

I score this one 6-3, Obama. Lie back on the rope and let her kick her own @ss...

The only poll that counts is

The only poll that counts is the one conducted on the first Tuesday in November.  As long as vote fraud is kept in check, the Dims could be in for a rude awakening.

Fred thompson?

I bet you they did a poll with Fred Thompson and Fred probably owned them all, which is why he is nowhere on their "poll results" that they did.

 

- Fredneck08 www.Fred08.com Vote for Fred!

 

Get a true Conservative in the WhiteHouse!

 

Obama love just a crush

Infatuation with Obama's feel good sophistry (pushed by the increasingly far Left media) is going to receive a bucket of cold water in the face when people march to the polls in November 2008 and decide who will best stand against the expanding threat of international Islamo-fascism.

If the general election comes down to Obama vs. Rudy, McCain or Fred - the silent middle is likely to surprise the pundits and the press.

We are in a war for the survival of Western civilization, and most people know this in their heart of hearts.

We will not elect a 46-year-old freshman senator to be commander in chief.

Stats all need to know!

http://rense.com/general79/seniors.htm

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of the following facts: 

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.   http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers. http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period." http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States". http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml

Total cost is a whooping... $338.3 BILLION A YEAR!!!

If this doesn't bother you then I don't know what will.
Snopes is provided for doubters:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration
Social Security Change For 2008

The United States Senate voted to extend Social Security Benefits to Illegal Aliens beginning in 2008. The following are the senators who voted to give illegal aliens Social Security benefits. They are grouped by home state. If a state is not listed, there was no voting representative.

Alaska: Stevens (R)

Arizona : McCain (R)

Arkansas : Lincoln (D) Pryor (D)

California : Boxer (D) Feinstein (D)

Colorado : Salazar (D)

Connecticut : Dodd (D) Lieberman (D)

Delaware : Biden (D) Carper (D)

Florida : Martinez (R)

Hawaii : Akaka (D) Inouye (D)

Illinois : Durbin (D) Obama (D)

Indiana : Bayh (D) Lugar (R)

Iowa : Harkin (D)

Kansas : Brownback (R)

Louisiana : Landrieu (D)

Maryland : Mikulski (D) Sarbanes (D)

Massachusetts : Kennedy (D) Kerry (D)

Montana : Baucus (D)

Nebraska : Hagel (R)

Nevada : Reid (D)

New Jersey : Lautenberg (D) Menendez (D)

New Mexico : Bingaman (D)

New York : Clinton (D) Schumer (D)

North Dakota : Dorgan (D)

Ohio : DeWine (R) Voinovich(R)

Oregon : Wyden (D)

Pennsylvania : Specter (R)

Rhode Island : Chafee (R) Reed (D)

South Carolina : Graham (R)

South Dakota : Johnson (D)

Vermont : Jeffords (I) Leahy (D)

Washington : Cantwell (D) Murray (D)

West Virginia : Rockefeller (D), by Not Voting

Wisconsin : Feingold (D) Kohl (D)

LET US SHOW OUR LEADERS IN WASHINGTON "PEOPLE POWER" AND THE POWER OF THE INTERNET. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRAT OR INDEPENDENT!  We need to let all know this.  We will not hear it on the evening news, we won't read it in the papers.

CNN 'Poll'

CNN doesn't do polls anymore. They engage in liberal propaganda to forward their agenda. Just WAIT until they 'have a poll result' that states the Republican nominee FAR FAR behind the Dem, and listen to them piss and moan when the Republican wins. Of course, if the Dem wins, well it was fair and square... Poll shmoll. CNN is on the payroll of the Dems. End of story

Did they take into consideration...

Did they take into consideration the fact that the front runner will collect votes from people that may have opposed them in the primaries.

Say for example Romney gets the nomimation.  There will still be some that won't vote for him for various reasons but many more will vote for him than might currently admit it because they may be currently supporting McCain or Huckabee.

I think if Romney gets the nomination that he will easily beat any Democrat.  The same with Thompson.  But I could never support McCain, Guiliani or Huckabee.  They are all far too liberal for me.  I might even consider voting for Ron Paul if he goes independant over McCain, Guiliani or Huckabee.

I don't want any more liberal's in the White House, I don't care if they are Republican or Democrat.