Open Thread


For general discussion and debate. Possible talking point: CNN beat Fox on Tuesday's primary night. According to Drudge:

CNN 3,298,000
FOXNEWS 3,068,000
MSNBC 1,648,000

Why might this be? Are liberals more interested in these primaries due to the battle between Clinton and Obama? Is it more about the party not in the White House always being more energized? Are the Republican candidates not generating much enthusiasm? Are conservatives disinterested due to the absence of a true conservative candidate as a frontrunner thereby auguring poorly for the GOP? Or, do right-thinking people understand these early primaries in tiny states are irrelevant?

What do these figures mean if anything?

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Speaking of Obama . .

who came in second in NH - kerry (who fought in Vietnam) will be endorsing him today (ht - Drudge) and it just goes to prove, second place has no boundries.

There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V

CNN figures

Maybe this is the reason CNN is so pro Dem....

I watched both CNN and FNC,

I watched both CNN and FNC, but after the numbers started coming in I started watching mostly CNN. The reason I did this was while I really like Hume, Michael Barone was doing the updating of the numbers and all he was offering was the totals. At one point Hume mentioned that it was hard to say what areas were reporting in, and what their demos looked like. Shortly after that I switched to CNN, and they had a nifty map display of each district, what the status of each district was, and they discussed what the impacts of votes were likely to be based on demographics.

CNN was providing much more and better information than FNC, so I stayed on CNN most of the night.

Oh Fox could have done that

Oh Fox could have done that too. It's just that they didn't want anyone to know Mrs Clinton may win because they had invested everything in her losing.

Yep, nuts I know. But bhat's the liberal interpretation, at least!

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

But by far the most liberal

But by far the most liberal of the three nets, MSNBC, came in third, and not even a close third.

I'd argue that the more exciting race in NH was Obama vs. Clinton and that conservatives are objectively interested in politics regardless of a lack of energy about the New Hampshire Republican primary (given the lack of frontrunner and how none of the frontrunners excite Republicans).

Football Comparison

Which game would you rather watch . . . . New England vs. Indianapolis or Detroit vs. Miami?

Primaries are not the general election

During the primaries within each party, you're dealing with party-bred people who largely think alike. The purpose of the primaries, after all, is for the parties to put forward "their" candidate. If you examine Hillary's and Obama's voting record, they're almost identical. Now obviously, you fight about differences, not about similarities. They're not going to fight about ideology, so their fight is going to be about things more fun to fight about: namely, demographics and personality.

  • In the Democrat race, the fight is more clear because the demographics and personality are sufficiently different. The surprising thing about the Hillary-Obama race is that the race demographic is split down the middle, and the gender demographic is similarly split. However, the big demographic split is about age. People under thirty are flocking to Obama, while the over-30 crowd is sticking with Hillary. Even so, all those demographics are in play, and that makes for a fun fight.
  • On the GOP side, they also all share the same ideology. But unlike the Democrats, they're all the same basic white guys.

However, we're only in the primaries. The ideology within the parties is identical, so they don't fight about that. Once we get to the general election, however, the ideologies come front and center. Personality is still important, but the fight becomes much more about ideology.

I still think conservatism is (by far) a stronger argument. The weakness in the GOP is that they haven't lived up to their conservatism. Still, in a straight fight between liberalism and conservatism, conservatives should win.

But as Chris Berman says, "... that's why they play the game."

The media still doesn't get it.

 

Per Tom Brokaw:

"What we're seeing in this country is a political re-alignment away from the political parties, being driven by independent voters."

 No, What we are seeing is a wholesale rejection of the GOP by conservatives who are disgusted with a party who once in power forgot the people and principles that brought them that power. Also to some extent the centrists of the Democrat party who reject their old parties headlong leap into the quagmire of European style socialism. There is room more now than ever for a moderate party with more interest in the preservation of a democracy than in feathering their own nests with perks and earmarks.  

I have to disagree

I have to disagree strongly. The LAST thing we need is a "moderate party". Moderates never do anything or accomplish anything. (political)

No, conservatism wins every time it's tried. No exceptions. The problem on the GOP side is we have few "complete conservatives" running. Not saying we don't have players on our side that have conservative leanings. Just no one who is conservative on every single thing.

The other problem is many have romanticized Ronald Reagan. Now if any man deserves that treatment, it's Reagan! No finer man has ever been President. But so many Republicans want to elect Ronald Reagan, they are dispirited, which in my opinion is silly as hell.

Our party has a fine line up this year. The worst of the front runners would make a better leader than anything the Socialist/Dim party has to offer. Period. Once we get into the general election, it will be game on!

Personally I'm liking Romney more and more, but Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani would be just fine. All three are right one the one thing that really matters, national security. I'm likin' Mitt the most because of his bona fides in financial matters.

Again, the last thing we need is a "moderate".

Statistical tie

Like political polls, TV ratings are based on "representative samples" of the viewing public.  I don't know what Neilsen's margin of error is, but I bet the gap between CNN and Fox is a statistical tie.  CNN's number is about 101% of Fox's number.  Also, some viewers undoubtedly switched among the networks for coverage. 

Another way to look at it:  Only about 1% of the US population watched any of the three cable news nets. 

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

Is this what billy boy clinton was talking about

when he spoke of "attack ads"?

There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V

And now, today's Shrub

And now, today's Shrub Report®:

2057 years ago today, Caesar crossed the Rubicon…

Obama hearts Farrakhan? Obama is da man. Plus, in keeping with liberals rewarding failure, the failure of 2004 is endorsing the failure of 2008.

He's still alive?

Apparently, the "defeat at all costs" mantra will not change in 2008.  Neither will their pay raises.

Fun with headlines! AP uses huge retailers Limited Brands and Pacific Sunwear to showcase how horrible holiday sales were. Even though Wal-Mart and CostCo had better-than expected holidays sales, they are minor, inconsequential players in our economy, right?

Today is big for birthdays of people who made their living with their throat: Jim Croce, Donald Fagen, Pat Benatar, Rod Stewart, and Linda Lovelace were all born on this date.

Remember, Chimpy McHitler is the warmongering fascist, right?

An early Couple of the Year nominee.

No, no, no, you dummy. It's adopt the kids THEN beat them silly, not the other way around

Newsbusters, what's your carbon footprint?

Here's a John Edwards Update.

CNN finally beat Fox News for one night, for once. Big Whoops. It is more shocking that nobody tuned in to hear HARD NEWS journalists Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman.

 

 

 

And, finally, 26 years ago today, Dwight Clark broke the hearts of heathen scumbag Cryboy fans when he made "The Catch" and earned the 49ers a berth in Super Bowl XVI, where the 49ers made this shrubber's life even better by beating the Bungles.

 

 

The 1st DEEP THROAT!

Love the Linda Lovelace note.  Oh, yes, we know how journalists come up with names now!!! 

Cowboys gonna be supper

Cowboys gonna be supper bowl champs this year, gona mow down them 49er shrubs.

I think the grounds for divorce are the man was cheating on his wife while she was at work.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Had a big thing for Pat

Had a big thing for Pat Benatar in high school, riveted to the TV when one of her videos would come on, even that great pile of hilarity know as "Love is a Battlefield."

I hear ya, Bal. When "Fast

I hear ya, Bal.

When "Fast Times at Ridgemont High" came out, they were spot-on about Pat. There were lookalikes in my high school, too!

Unfortunately, there were not enough Linda Lovelace lookalikes, though... hahaha

Fast Times...how great was

Fast Times...how great was that. Cameron needs to get back to good movies like that and Almost Famous. Vanilla Sky and Elizabethtown missed the mark.

As for Linda...there were always rumors about people at school with her..."looks." :-)

Well, bal...

As for Linda...there were always rumors about people at school with her..."looks".

I guess it was too bad you only had a big thing for Pat Benetar.

Jer

Fox and Linda Lovelace

I understand a spokesman for Fox just announced that the ratings loss to CNN occurring on the birthday of Linda Lovelace made it particularly hard to swallow.

Jer

Yuk Yuk Yuk!

Yuk Yuk Yuk!

LOL

Was the Fox spokesperson blonde or brunette?

KC...Well, if the

KC...Well, if the spokesperson were female, I think you have your answer.

Evidently, at Fox, being blonde is a job requirement.

Jer

Jer

Jer,

Delicious!  ;-)  ns

Noel...

Noel...

{Groan}...this is one time your favorite adjective may be just a tad too descriptive.  [For my tastes, anyway.]

Jer

Gross, Jer.  But funny.

Gross, Jer.  But funny.

Whole Lotta Fluff

These cauci are a whole lotta fluff. Yes, they count but this election has been the superbowl of soundbytes, internet hit jobs....it is like one long reality show.

The democratic race is more a popularity/likability contest and less about issues. So naturally the left is eating this coverage up faster than you can say "survivor" or "american idol".

Actually electing the next leader of the free world because of his (or her) smooth talk, skin color, silky hair or emotional fragility is damn sad and scary.

Light my fire.

Based on voter turnout, more democrats were interested in the outcome than were republicans; thus more viewers.

If you add up both CNN & MSNBC's numbers, they closely mirror the Dem/Rep turnout ratios. So far, republicans don't seem very jazzed about their choice of candidates. 

Talking about voter turnout

Talking about voter turnout my wife and I are talking about voting in the Minnesota primary for the first time ever. 

Does anybody know or have

Does anybody know or have seen Obamba's real political resume, unpolished, unedited? It's bugging me that I don't know. It seems he's just a community activist that became a junior senator that has the narcissistic view of self to run for President.

IMHO, For starts, the left

IMHO,

For starts, the left watches CNN, we don’t for the most part.

So it seems like people are jazzed over Ob.

I also think that the conservative base is disgusted. They see Mc Cain, the pro immigration, anti tax cutting, Mc Cain/Feingold. OR..Huckabee, pro immigration, pro tax history, unelectable.

These two are whom the MSM seem to want to run. So they are getting two the left can beat, and even if they don’t beat them they will get a flood of immigration, and tax hikes so they win even if they loose. So we cut off Fox because we are pissed.

The person that I feel comes closest to a real conservativeis Fred, 5th place in a race of 6.

I telling you now, it will be a long time in the wilderness again, (thanks Bush, and the over spending congress)+ open borders!

Between business that want open borders, and every politician  thinks that they will stay in office because the immigrants will vote for them.

The conservatives will stay home again. (like last time)

I just cut off the TV. I know the Titanic is headed for the ice field, because no one wants to stop it. I don’t need to watch it hit the iceberg. I know how the story ends. My only hope is we hold enough in the house and senate that we can slow down the ship.

I know, cutting off my nose to spite my face, but at this point I’m disgusted with my face. Maybe, just maybe, if they screw it up enough (like Jimmy Carter did) we might get another Reagan. Its sad, and I think that a lot of people think like me.

 

Fox viewers are down because we (the conservatives) are feeling rather low, so if they are like me they cut off  the TV.

 

The RNC is sooooo clue less, they keep sending me letterswith a check list to what is important to me, then ask for money.

The last one I taped a brick to the letter and told them tobuild a fence and start with this brick. I haven’t gotten any letter lately.

       IDIOTS.

Sorry for the rant, I’m a bit pissed off.

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

I think we are headed for

I think we are headed for teh wilderness, hopefully not for 40 years.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

USA4...

All I can add to that is "Amen". 

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

The part that worries me is

The part that worries me is they will put in place a bunch of nut job liberal judges that even if we re-gain control in a few years they (via judges writing laws) keep the liberal ideas going.

How did we loose a handle on this. We had the President, congress and house.. Idiots, they thought they could our Democrat the Democrats.From the looks of it for example: ear marks, they haven’t learned their lesson.

On January 3, 2007 President Bush called on Congress to cutthe number and cost of earmarks by at least half.

I have a grand idea.. why in the hell don’t you cut them out completely!!! Be a  &^%$%#@#   leader..!!!

 

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

151,000 Dead Iraqis

Between March of 2003 and June of 2006, the WHO and the Iraqi government estimate that 151,000 Iraqis have died.

Well above administration estimates.

LINK

That is a sickening number of innocent people to have died.  Couple that with the fact that Iraq is still potentially decades away from standing on their own and you have a terrifying situation.

What happened to the 600,000 or more!

Geez, what happened to the 600,000 or more we heard about over 1 1/2 years ago!  Guess the EXIT THIS LIFE polling was off!!  Some thought they were dead, but really weren't! 

Paw, I don't think that

Paw,

I don't think that number has been ruled out.  The 151,000 was obtained by interviewing households. 

They haven't yet been able to develop an effective way to track the number of deaths suffered by the over 4 million displaced Iraqis.

If they can accurately develop a stat detailing how many displaced Iraqis have died, you'll be sure to see the death count spike.

To date this is the most thorough study ever conducted, but it's still limited in its scope.  In no way does this invalidate the 600,000 estimate.

No way ruled out!

Geez, from 600,000 or more down to 151,000.  Seems someone, WHO, ruled out about 449,000 of them!  You logic is like my wife doing reverse logic by telling me the dress cost $600, when actually it cost only $151 and she pocketed the other for another day!  Just stupid logic like my example logic!!!   

Paw, You have have

Paw,

You have have serious reading comprehension problems.  My guess is that you are a retiree, somewhere in your 70s. 

What I said made perfect sense.

The 151 was obtained by conducting household surveys, logically, these are the deaths suffered in families that are still in their homes.

It doesn't fully take into account casualties suffered by displaced Iraqis.  That number is much to difficult to wrangle down. 

So my simple, easy to understand point is that 151,000 is a great start when drilling down on death count, but you could easily argue that the true number could be much higher, once we have the ability to trace the deaths of displaced Iraqis.

Got it?  Or are you going to reply with another cute, irrelevant story about your wife?

Leon...

You really do enjoy being rude to people, don't you? 

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

Typical DIM, can't answer ?s, just attack with nonsense!

Typical DIM, can't answer ?s, just attack with nonsense!  Doesn't bother me.  I helped his parents be safe so he could be born free.

Paw, I gave you an answer

Paw,

I gave you an answer in easy to understand language.

Don't blame me for your inability to read.

Let's break it down for you.  I'll try to type slower:

1)  151,000 is an estimate obtained through household survey of Iraqis, aka people that are still in their residences.

2)  As a result, this number does not take into account the number of Iraqis that have died within the displaced community.

3)  Thus, if you add the number of displaced Iraqis that have died to 151,000 what do you get?  A number higher than 151,000 - potentially as high as 600,000 or even higher, the point is we don't know at this time.

Get it?  Are you sure?  Read it out loud, that helps me sometimes when I'm confused.

 

You make no sense, Leon

Leon, you're going to try and tell us over 449,000 Iraqis have been displaced and died during this time.  Geez, no wonder the grave diggers in Iraq have no business, it has been outsourced to other countries!  That's how much sense you make, I certainly hope you do make cents tho, to pay for this old man's SS & Medicare benefits, although I ain't there yet buddy!

No Paw, Again, learn to

No Paw,

Again, learn to read.

I said approx. 4 million have been displaced and we don't know how many of them have died.

Good God man, slow down and read what you're responding to.

Pawpaw...

Too bad you had to help HIS parents!

Actually, I take that back. I am a parent and have a son that has been a huge disapointment, so much so I rarely talk about him. To give you an idea how bad, my wife and I are raising his daughter. I imagine Leon being alot like my son. 

PS. We love our granddaughter and are happy she is with us (yes. we spoil her just a little).

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

CT, I'd appreciate it if

CT,

I'd appreciate it if you didn't displace your failure as a parent onto me.

You don't know me, you don't know anything about me, so you have no right to compare me to your derelict son.

You'd be wise to keep your personal failures to yourself around here.

Let's see, Leon

Let's see Leon, how many people lived in IRAQ prior to our provaction?  How many people live in IRAQ now?  How many people displaced?  Maybe your defition would be better if it were MISPLACED!  See your comprehension is such that you must be a high school drop out, who thinks he's computer literate.  But in doing such fail to know that all previous info on such material as this is readily available.   

Paw, I must be a high

Paw,

I must be a high school drop out?  I'm not following your logic at all.

The correct term for those people involved in the current humanitarian crisis in Iraq is DISPLACED.  I didn't choose this term, this is the official term used by our government.

Maybe you should write a letter to your state senator asking him/her to change the term to misplaced.  If you do this, please make sure to use your question approach! haha.

You clearly don't even understand what it is we are discussing so I'm not sure why you feel the need to waste your time and my time.

Poor Leon

Poor Leon, he can dish but not take.  The fact remains you bring up subject of 151,000 deaths from a new report and that report over rides the 600,000 or more deaths that the MSM and you touted so highly just in the last 18 months.  You took discussion off base, so to say, since you'd never be seen on a military base.  If you have anything to back up the fact that approx 449,000 deaths were over reported before, then show it.  If you feel it could be wrong, then maybe they still over reported and it is only 50,000 as Jack says. 

Paw, It hasn't overrode

Paw,

It hasn't overrode anything.  I'm  not sure where you're getting that from.  You're making assumptions and then arguing from an unfounded position. 

That's fine, just not a very effective debate style.

No arguing, just providing you with info

No arguing, just providing you with info, my dear Leon.  You seem to have forgotten the original stories that came out.  How you seem to always do that in your hits!  & you are not debating, you are just baiting.  When someone gives you the facts, you moveon.org to something else.  Have a nice day and I'll pray for you also, along with our other enemies and our GREAT TROOPS!

Leon...

If you feel that strongly about what is happening in Iraq, why don't you take your whiney butt over there and help defend the Iraqi's against the militant Islamic scumbags that are killing them. 

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

How about a famous quote...?

One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic. -Stalin

Leon,

They just don't get it. Be it 1 death, 10, 100, 1000,...etc., the Iraqi death total just don't matter to any of them. If you were to ask them what Iraqis were getting killed, they probably would say it's Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

At least 3900 troops have been lost in Iraq & Afganistan since our beloved leader got us into this mess. The best way to support our troops is to bring'em home.

Syrius

"Only the dead have seen the end of war." Plato

New quote for Leon & Syrius

"The best way to be sure we have a home is to support our Troops!" 

PawPaw...the best way to support...

Pawpaw,

The best way to support our troops is to...

-give them a mission they can accomplish.

-give them the armor they need.

-give them some time off.

-give them better pay.

-give them better care now & in the future.

-give them whatever they need to support their families.

-give them hope.

-bring them home.

That's what I want to see instead of some idiot driving a huge SUV with a yellow ribbon sticker that says "Support Our Troops!".

You haven't clue on how to support the troops.

Syrius

Exposing & Confronting Liberal Media Bias Critics.

You just don't get it!

I'm a veteran and you just don't get it!  How is bringing troops home going to keep us safe.  Seems putting everyone in 1 spot and letting the enemies surround you is what you say-BRING 'EM HOME.  That's the worse strategy there is, any soldier will tell you.  You support our troops by praying for them, their families, and, yes, even praying for our enemies.  You can also help elect officials who will provide them with the essentials needed-vote them pay raises and not themselves raises.  You have a decent list, but you don't believe in it by your posts, etc.  You talk a good game, but when it comes to the fight, you give up! 

PawPaw, As RJ would like to argue...

PawPaw,

RJ would have to disagree since you've served in a war. She would probably raise an issue on how you've been influenced and brainwashed by your experiences much like McCain-(sarc for RJ). Thinking that war is the best solution to solve the problems that exist is foolhardy. Eventually, you've got to rein in the dogs. So, when do you bring'em home? We're safe from Vietnam since we brought our troops home, right?

We need to regroup & attack the true Al-Qaeda, which resides in the Afganistan/Pakistan region.

Why must we stay in Iraq? For how long?

Syrius

Exposing & Confronting Liberal Media Bias Critics.

Where are our troops located now?

See, you have no idea on how to keep country safe.  We have troops all over the world.  Why are they there?  Think about that for a while.

Syrius,

"We need to regroup & attack the true Al-Qaeda, which resides in the Afganistan/Pakistan region."
The reasons we can't go into Pakistan are obvious and have been discussed.
Troops are in Afganistan but I would agree not enough but we are spread a little thin right now.
"Why must we stay in Iraq? For how long?"
Because we made a commitment to the Iraqi people. Without honoring that commitment we ruin our ability to ever negotiate with any country.
How long? I wish I knew but my guess is that there will be military, not necessarily in force, in Iraq for at least five generations or until the government requests that we leave completely. Hopefully the US and Iraq will be allies and see peaceful times during most of that period.

Agnostic, What's the

Agnostic,

What's the point of having a war on terror if we aren't even willing to attack the terrorist hotbeds and training grounds?

We violated the sovereignity of Iraq who had a handful of Al Qaeda to fight terrorism, yet we sit by and watch as Pakistan allows terrorism to flourish and call them an ally.

SO are we really trying to win the war on terror? 

I don't think so.  If we were we'd be dropping bombs in Wajiristan.

Leon, nice thoughts but...

Regardless of whatever dislike for the administration you may have they made their argument for the invasion of Iraq on several key issues not the least of which was the support that Sadaam's regime gave to terrorist. Al Qaeda may have been the group that is responsible for 9-11 but the war on terror is a bigger picture than just one group of terrorist. On a side note, I would like to see the scope of the War on Terror more clearly defined. This argument won nearly all the votes in congress and was popular among the population at the time.
As for entering Pakistan or widening our influence in Afghanistan, it is not likely to happen unless the current governments in those two countries collapse and they are taken over by people who openly support and spread terrorism. It would also help if they violated several UN sanctions, committed atrocities against their own people and smoked in their restaurants (for the liberal vote).
I agree something most be done about the training bases but as long as the governments of these two countries at don't capitulate and start actively supporting the terrorist I don't think anything can be done and I doubt any nation in the world would support our efforts if we tried to do it by force (Unlike others I do believe that our actions must be defendable to but not defined by our allies). However, a lot and I can not stress enough on how much more pressure needs to be put on the governments of Afghanistan and Pakistan to remove or allow the removal of these threats.

This is all reasonable and

This is all reasonable and well-laid-out, but it just reiterates the fact that, despite being consistently presented under the pretext of "The Major U.S. Issue That Trumps All Others", the War on Terror, such as it is, will always take a backseat to the walking-on-eggshells realpolitic of economic and diplomatic backscratching.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Exactly Jason..

...and that's the problem.

As Michael Madsen so aptly stated, "Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"

US does a lot of barking about terrorists, but not a whole lot of biting. 

If the war on Terror was TRULY our number one issue (as the BUSH admin would have us believe) then we'd be all over any country that harbors terrorists.  Until we start doing this, it's really nothing more than meaningless slogan.

 

Well, after that SOTU

Well, after that SOTU speech about what a big national crisis we have due to steroids in baseball, I know my concerns have been elsewhere. That and making sure them homos don't be marryin'.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

OK?

Thank you! But do you believe it is okay that everything political eventually degenerates in to "walking-on-eggshells realpolitic of economic and diplomatic backscratching"? The war is not the only thing that gets this treatment in our current political climate. Any thing that can grab a headline becomes a political battlefield. I agree whole heartedly that their definitely is a mixed message coming from the administration when this happens but it is still my opinion that the invasion of Iraq was the right thing to do and it would have been even more correct if the job was done the first time around during the Gulf War. I see why the administration made the decisions they did about Pakistan and Afghanistan but that doesn't mean that I don't think more pressure should have been applied. Especially now with veiled threats coming from Pakistan.

Support the troops...

Let them win! 

Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ 

We already did the math, Leon

600,000 deaths = about 520 deaths per day. 

The largest single death toll reported for one incident was 131 people.  The largest single death toll reported for one day was 233.  (The key word is LARGEST)

600,000 deaths = total fabrication

150,000 deaths = likely fabrication 

Between March of 2003 and

Between March of 2003 and June of 2006, the WHO and the Iraqi government estimate that 151,000 Iraqis have died.  Why does a rock band like the WHO have statistics on Iraqi deaths?  And further why should we care what a defunct rock band thinks.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Dan, For a

Dan,

For a self-proclaimed Christian you sure revel in making light of other people's misery.

Apparently you don't WWJD. 

Your a CINO.  Christian in Name Only.

Leon, I am confused, here.

Leon, I am confused, here. We have only killed 151000 Iraqis? But I thought the whole reason for going to Iraq was to kill Iraqis, and Syrians and Iranians and...

We must be running low on ammo, or their better at ducking.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Leon I look to the Bible

Leon I look to the Bible for WWJD, do you?  I wasnt making light of anyones suffering I was making light of your statistics.  And furthermore I am not concerned those peopel died.  People die daily for different reasons.  The only thing I am concerned with is are they saved or not.  The answer is probably not, but that is not my concern but God's concern.

To restate I was making fun of your source and in doing so you.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Dan, I liked it.. I bet Leon

Dan, I liked it..I bet Leon likes the back street boys.. 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

Actually USA, I've seen

Actually USA,

I've seen the WHO live 6 times, which is pretty good considering I was born in 1981.

The problem with the WHO for me is simply that I've listened to their songs so much, I can't listen anymore.

You don't want to dance over music with me USA.  You'll find yourself quite outmatched. 

I'd put my record collection up against anyone in the world. 

Don’t be so sure I ran

Don’t be so sure I ran the music at my bar for 10 years. When I left I had almost 11 beer boxes of CD’s 

 

 

These are the boys of Pointe du Hoc. Ronald Reagan- 40th Anniversary of D-Day

USA, That's a solid

USA,

That's a solid number of cds.  Can't argue with you there, but 11 boxes is not that much.

I'm talking thousands and thousands of records.  Inherited my mom and dad's collection and have been building on it for the past 14 years. 

With records (esp. vintage) being so cheap, it's much easier to build a huge collection than with cds (unless you're cheating and burning cds).

Now THAT's the Hater we've

Now THAT's the Hater we've been missing the past few months. Let it out, Heinrich. Let it all out.

When it comes to music, you should, perhaps defer to the NUMEROUS people on this board who have established a track record of knowing what they are speaking about. After all, claiming to see THE WHO six times in your short lifetime only reinforces the belief that you crappy taste in music.

But, by all means, don't let us stop you. Proceed.

I wonder how many times he's

I wonder how many times he's seen Abba?

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

I am sure more times than

I am sure more times than The Who. I bet his extensive collection of ticket stubs from Mama Mia! is the centerpiece of his 1-bedroom apartment.

Shrub, Why would seeing the

Shrub,

Why would seeing the Who 6 times reaffirm my crappy taste in music?

I'm not following. I think 6 times is a lot for someone my age considering how infrequently the Who have toured in the 90s and 2000s

Or are you claiming that liking the Who makes my taste in music crappy?

I'll dance with anyone on music. I posted my comprehensive list of some of my favorite groups a while back and a lot of people agreed with me/complimented me on my selections. I guess you missed that one.

Since 1988, The Who played

Since 1988, The Who played Phlly, your hometown, TEN times, seven of them since 1993, so spare me your melodrama about how "rare" seeing them live is.

I guess I have to spell it out for you: The Who blows. Great musicians, but they are both dead. I saw them on their "Farewell Tour" in 1982. How many "Farewell Tours" have they had since? They have become a joke, ever since they sold out and had Schlitz sponsor them. How pathetic is that?

As for your offer to "dance with anyone" on music, it really doesn't matter what you say, because there is no way you can defend your honor, aside from a Zoolanderish "walk-off", so your chest-thumping and boasting and begging for acceptance from your betters here at NB just makes you look even less of a man.

Rog, you don't like The

Rog, you don't like The Who?

Would it be fair to say

Would it be fair to say that they haven't aged well?

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07 

I wonder if Pete spends a

I wonder if Pete spends a good bit of time vacationing in Thailand?