CNN's Foreman: Romney's Assault on Texas Dream Act 'a Little Misleading and More Along the Lines of Being True But Incomplete'
In recent years, various media outlets have established self-styled truth squads to "fact check" politicians. Today on CNN Newsroom anchored by Brooke Baldwin, correspondent Tom Foreman examined statements made at last night's GOP presidential candidate debate. One was former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney's criticism of Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s support for a law allowing children of illegal immigrants to qualify for in-state tuition at public universities and colleges. Romney said: "Four years of college, almost $100,000 discount if you're an illegal alien to go to the University of Texas. If you're a United States citizen you have to pay $100,000 more."
Foreman's verdict was that Romney's assertion was correct, but faulted him because he didn't mention other states have similar programs:
FOREMAN: If you were an out of state student, you would pay an additional around $23,000 to go there, so over four years that, would add up to about $100,000 break as an in-state student. What he doesn't mention, however is that Texas is not alone. Sure, he wants to punch Rick Perry with this. But California does this, New Mexico does it, Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, Maryland, I can't remember them all.
BALDWIN: So not just Texas.
FOREMAN: A whole bunch of them. The bottom line, there are a good number who do the same thing. Some states don't allow it. But for him to present it in a way as if it's just Texas doing it, that's really one of those things that's a little misleading and more along the lines of being true but incomplete. So I think we're going to see an awful lot of this Brooke as this whole campaign goes on. Campaigns always cherry-picking their information.
The thing is, they often have a valid point to make, but they can't resist just shoving aside everything that doesn't fit. That's why we have this barbecue to throw them on later.
BALDWIN: Keep that truth-ometer handy, Mr. Foreman. Thank you very much. Have a good weekend to you.
Contrary to Foreman's claim, Romney did not "present it in a way as if it's just Texas doing it." His opponents don't include the governors of Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, or Maryland. They do include the governor of Texas, and it's eminently appropriate for candidates to discuss each other's records without providing "complete" information on everyone else who isn't a candidate.
Foreman couldn't just admit that Romney was accurate. No, Romney's argument had to be found "a little misleading and more along the lines of being true but incomplete." Seems like Mr. Foreman's "truth-ometer" needs recalibrating.
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Comments
This one one thing I don't
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 7:22pm.
This one one thing I don't like about Perry, but it sure beats Romneycare
it's a toss-up
Submitted by kata on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 8:08pm.
both of them annoy me.
No real comparison
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:00pm.
RomneyCare and Perry's position on illegals are both positions that I disagree with. However, RomneyCare is perfectly legal within the framework of the United States Constitution and, (I'm assuming here because I'm not familiar with Mass State Laws), the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The United States, set up as a Republic, is designed to have limited federal government, but States and Localities have the leeway to establish laws as they see fit, as long as they don't conflict with the United States Constitution. I like Romney's position on federalism. If Mass. wants to have universal health care, and they pay for it entirely with revenues or taxes within the state of Mass., then that's their misfortune, and their choice. I would rather not live in a state that is that liberal, but that is my choice.
Perry's position, on the other hand, is more troubling to me, since it involves the treatment of individuals who's status inside the United States is illegal. They have broken federal law regarding immigrating to our country.
I would rather have a "liberal" as President, who was a strict Federalist and upheld the letter of the United States Constitution, then someone who proclaimed themself to be a conservative, yet trampled all over the Constitution and the laws of the United States, and acted as if they were a dictator or a king, and imposed laws on the states from the federal level.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
actually
Submitted by kata on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 3:28pm.
I was speaking more along the lines of them, personally. And the debates cage fightssserr.... split screen discussions just accentuated it.
Per the issues, I think that the immigrant issue far outweighs the healthcare one since I value states' rights. Regardless, I am for ABO in 2012.
How dare he!
Submitted by CobraMan on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 8:06pm.
How dare Romney focus on solely on Texas during a discussion of Perry's support of the Texas In-State tuition policy! Of course, if he had mentioned the other states, there's no doubt that the same "fact checkers" would have pointed out how irreverent it would be to discuss the differing State policies. After all, Perry doesn't have anything to do with the policies of other States.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
It was kind of funny watching a guy with an Obamacare, Jr.
Submitted by Dave. on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 8:21pm.
...t-shirt beating up on a guy with a Tex-Mex (or is it Mex-Tex?) t-shirt.
I was actually beginning to warm up to Perry a bit, but his RINO streak has a decidedly agave tint to it, so I think I'll stay firmly ensconced in the Hermanator's camp for now.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
You can't go wrong with Cain
Submitted by ArcherB on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 8:29am.
You can't go wrong with Cain, but if it comes down to Perry or Romney, the Mass gov is a much bigger RINO. For that matter, I'd say he's the biggest RINO of the bunch and nothing more than McCain with better skin and hair.
"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary."
--Ernesto "Che" Guevara
Can anyone explain to me ...
Submitted by Fredy on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 8:55pm.
What good it does for the state of Texas, or any other state, to subsidize college education for someone that cannot legally work in this country?
I just do not see how this actually does anything but encourage more law breaking.
Can anyone explain to me ...
Submitted by Fredy on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 8:55pm.
What good it does for the state of Texas, or any other state, to subsidize college education for someone that cannot legally work in this country?
I just do not see how this actually does anything but encourage more law breaking.
Then explain to me..
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 9:01pm.
why a state is subsidizing ANYONE's education. The prices of a college education would be cheaper if the government would stop financing it.
Radical1979.........You are absolutely correct! Colleges have
Submitted by Rush Fan on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 11:24pm.
no incentive to reduce their cost, as long as the government is subsidizing tuition through their student loan business.
As for CNN's Foreman, he is doing the job that Leftist CNN is paying him to do: attempting to marginalize Republican candidates.
Thank you
Submitted by Blonde on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:18am.
Nothing else needs to be said on the topic.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Why does it matter how many states do it?
Submitted by Marcus Porcius on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 9:30pm.
As I recall, once upon a time quite a few states had slavery. Quite a few states used to ban abortions. Most states allow concealed carry permits for handguns.
I bet the "lots of states do it" argument won't fly for those (and shouldn't, in the case of slavery). Just because some states do it doesn't make it right.
I also love the "some states don't allow it" garbage, which is obviously designed to make it sound like they're a minority. As far as I can tell, only 12 states allow illegals to get in-state tuition to colleges they shouldn't even be allowed to attend. That means 38 stated do NOT.
Gee, which is "some states"...12 or 38?
"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." G.K. Chesterton
www.theconservativereview.com
Right... but
Submitted by ArcherB on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 8:46am.
Where are those states located? It's easy to deny such things when you have a Hispanic population of less than 5%. Hispanics are, or will soon be the majority in Texas.
And, that's the issue here. There are many people were brought here by their illegal parents when they were less than the age of 5. Now, ask yourself this, are THEY illegal? Sure, they are not exactly here legally, but did the 3-yr-old do anything illegal? Did that 3-yr-old break any laws?
These kids grow up in Texas, attend Texas public schools and their parents pay into the property tax system (either directly or through a land lord) and pay sales taxes on everything they buy. Remember Texas has no income tax, so if these people live here THEY PAY TAXES, regardless of their job.
These kids graduate high school and want to attend college. Do you let them? It's not like they haven't paid into the system. It's not like they are going to be deported any time soon. It's not like they are not going to keep paying into the system. If they live somewhere and buy stuff, they are going to be paying taxes.
Now, here is the kicker:
ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND ALL THE LIBS THAT ARE AGAINST THE ARIZONA IMMIGRATION BILL, STATES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS OR EVEN ASK IF A PERSON IS HERE ILLEGALLY.
"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary."
--Ernesto "Che" Guevara
"Now, ask yourself this, are
Submitted by ThePickle on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 4:46pm.
"Now, ask yourself this, are THEY illegal? Sure, they are not exactly here legally, but did the 3-yr-old do anything illegal? Did that 3-yr-old break any laws?"
Ok let me break this done into small pieces for ya.
They are here illegally.
It doesn't matter how they got here.
They are here illegally.
It doesn't matter if they "pay taxes"
They are here illegally.
It doesn't matter how many are here.
They are here illegally.
Are you beginning to to sense a "theme" here?
No matter what kind of silly sob story these folks want to haul out for public inspection the fact is, was and always will be.....
They are here illegally!!!
To paraphrase an illustrious and beloved character from my youth.....
"They STOLE fizzy lifting drink!!!!...They get NOTHING!!"
Didn't Foreman get the message?...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 9:44pm.
It is called "under-exaggeration!!!"
Seems like Mr. Foreman forgot to break out the truth-ometer on "Barry's Bridges" over-exaggerations!
Marcus, don't forget the, "Most Americans agree that (fill in liberal cause/agenda here)"...
Remember when the liberals used to claim that republicans were "marching in lock-step" when they refused to be bi-partisan, meaning, give in to the democrats?
Ahhh, the good ol' days...
It's subsized by the agricultural industry...
Submitted by humanzee on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 9:58pm.
The legislation Perry signed is not the dream act. It gives in-state tuition to in-state illegal aliens.
In some states having state residency is separate from National Residency. In Texas, it appears that long time undocumented residents of the state can have in-state tuition for their children.
While living in Texas, they do pay in-state fees and taxes. Their employers also pay taxes of some form, too.
The rationale is that they are Texas residences... as in, people who have resided in Texas for a long time.
Santorum made a good point. No one is denying them education. Subsidies to education are socialist and it is a double wrong to subsidize the education of illegal alien. This issue isn't that huge.
Perry's stance on "illegal immigrant education" is nothing when compared to Romney's faults... Obamacare and the liberal baggage.
Perry seems to want to buy the vote of "Mexican-American" and other Hispanics. It's something some GOP think the GOP should do more of... try to attract Latinos/Hispanics who are only Democrat because of the stupid immigration issue. Perry sees that the moral right can be reinforced, I suppose. Karl Rove has advocated for outreach before.
At least there is a method to Perry's madness. Get Catholic/Christian Hispanics to become loyal Republicans instead of getting brainwashed into becoming disenfranchised wannabe Black Panthers by the Democrats.
College subsidies
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:00pm.
On Andrew Wilkow's show a woman called in and said the state of Texas was required to show where the tuition money was going. I believe she said $400 of her son's tuition bill went to finance the subsidies of illegals.
It doesn't really matter where the money comes from, it's going from a taxpayer to support an illegal act.
I'm not thrilled with Perry or Romney.
These are in-state illegals.
Submitted by humanzee on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:16pm.
These are in-state illegals. Most people who go to state owned colleges are from the state where the college/university sits in. Out-of-state students pay more because they haven't been residents of the state for whatever amount of time it takes to claim residency in the state. . . haven't been paying in-state sales taxes, income taxes, property taxes, fees, etc.
Out-of-state tuition is a penalty.
Texas owned colleges treat "illegal aliens" that have lived in Texas for a long time as Texas residents. . . which they are. They can get drivers licenses, rent a place to live, pay car insurance, etc. I think all states in the union treat illegal aliens as "residents" of their states after a while. Is there a state that denies them drivers' licenses or a place to live?
Perry's plan is not subsidizing tuition for illegals that have just showed up. They have to be long term "residents" of the state.
Texas residency is a different beast than Federal Residency. In state tuition is only for long time residents of Texas who meet Texas residency requirements but are not federally documented.
Coin a new term "In-state resident federal illegals."
The local king recognizes those that the emperor does not.
humanzee
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:22pm.
States should be denying illegals driver's licenses and places to live. They are after all, ILLEGAL. The fact that the state is rewarding long term illegals doesn't improve the plan from my point of view. Should we be rewarding serial killers because they evade the law more often?
When my children started public school we had to provide birth certificates and proof we lived in the district before we could register them for school. Why are there different rules for illegals?
When my daughter started college (private) we still had to provide her birth certificate. She gets NO assistance. Why should we, as law abiding citizens, have to pay more than a law breaker? And why does Perry support law breakers?
"Is there a state that denies
Submitted by ckc1227 on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 11:42pm.
"Is there a state that denies them drivers' licenses...?"
Yes. Texas, for one. And Texas isn't alone. Only three states in the U.S. allow illegal immigrants to obtain a state driver's license.
News Flash for you humanzee...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:05pm.
Hispanic/Latino Catholics who are here legally absolutely despise illegal aliens in this country. They are also against abortion and homosexual marriage. They believe in what America used to call the nuclear family, until the democrats set out to destroy the family unit by taking the father out of the family. They are conservative by nature and do not need Perry or anyone else to stop them from, as you wrote, "getting brainwashed into becoming disenfranchised wannabe Black Panthers by the Democrats." They are not stupid. They believe in God.
Undocumented means illegal. Illegal means against the law. Illegal aliens should draw ZERO benefits from our country regardless of how long they have "resided" in Texas or any other state. So your attempt at "rationalizing" Perry's motives is simply delusional.
You also wrote: "While living in Texas, they do pay in-state fees and taxes. Their employers also pay taxes of some form, too." Again, illegals work under fraudulent social security numbers, or under the table, paying ZERO income, state, federal, medicaid, social security, etc... taxes, while collecting welfare, SSDI, food stamps, raping our health care system by NEVER PAYING for the care they receive. They gun down and they drive drunk and kill Americans with no penalty because they are released and assume another ID.
Here is Uncle Omar (Onyango Obama):
http://articles.boston.com/2011-09-09/news/30136095_1_jay-carney-immigra...
And Auntie Zeituni:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/04/01/2009-04-01_president...
They BOTH collect SSDI, receive public housing money, food stamps, have illegal social security cards, Onyango works at a liquor store in violation of the law, he has a VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE.... On and on and on...
#1: Most people are not that
Submitted by humanzee on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:39pm.
#1: Most people are not that smart, that includes Hispanics/Latinos. How do you think this country has so many liberals and Democrats? Sadly, a lot of Hispanics are single minded, uninformed, and Democrats know it. They constantly bombard them with agents cut of the same cloth as they are. The Hispanics who have migrated during the last few decades are not very educated and very poor. Democrats send in the brown Hispanic with the Chicano accent to sell them the snake oil. These people then feed this snake oil to their kids as they grow up into voting Hispanics who get hung up and throw away their personal interests for the sake of random people.
#2: Want to tame wild elephants? Dangle peanuts in front of them.
#3: Democrats have turned immigration into a racial issue, like it or not. Hispanics have been conditioned to get "butthurt" whenever someone speaks ill of an illegal. I'm from LA, it's kind of funny. It's like you've plunged an red hot dagger into their chest.
#4: Taxes and iron fist regulations suck. Those who hire illegals are trying to circumvent draconian labor rules and laws. Yargh! Lower taxes, deregulate... less companies will feel they have to hire them. Capitalism made them do it!
#5: GDP is good for something and illegal labor does contribute to GDP. The products they help produce still generate tax revenue. They help their employers pay back their loans, grows their businesses, get wealthier, etc.
Marco Rubio...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:04am.
The democrats, and liberal like you, fear him. The Hispanic/Latino community supports him.
Sorry to see you hate Hispanic and Latinos so much, as well as Capitalism. And only liberals like you try to make an unqualified point by posting "Most people (fill in the blank), and in this case you wrote "are not that smart" and "Sadly, a lot of Hispanics are single minded, uninformed, and Democrats know it." How very judgmental of you, professor.
#3: Democrats turn everything into racism, and you seem quite capable of doing so yourself.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/20/hispanic-gop-group-announce-s...
#4: Those who hire illegal aliens are breaking the law, plain and simple, and should be held accountable, meaning that they should lose their business and serve time. It is damn near treason what they are doing. Undermining the Country and its laws. The TEA Party is in a fight with obama now to kill his regulatory stranglehold on all business, small and corporate.
You wrote: "The Hispanics who have migrated during the last few decades are not very educated and very poor." You mean illegal day laborers, right? I am talking about LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who MIGRATED to America LEGALLY! Legal Hispanics/Latinos despise illegal "migrants" for bucking the system and they resent the democrat push for amnesty. The link below refutes your assertions that Hispanics/Latinos are stupid.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/hispanics-support-republicans-says...
#5: Illegal labor drains more resources than it creates. Why are all of the hospitals and clinics closing down along the southern border? Not because of legal U.S. Citizens!
How is that new Governor working out for you? The whacko Jerry Brown 2.0?
Cubans don't vote like most
Submitted by humanzee on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 4:36am.
Cubans don't vote like most Hispanics to begin with because of their circumstances. 000I never said I didn't like Marco Rubio. I like Marco Rubio and he's not as hardcore on immigration as Bachmann, either. He's come out against tough measures taken against illegal aliens in the past.
Let's go over some things...
65.5 percent of all Hispanics in the US are Mexican. Around 75% come from Mexico/Central America where many illegal aliens come from. Most Hispanics in general are in the border states. And they're breeding, birthing "natural born" citizens by law. Batches from the 1980s and 1990s are of voting age, now. Many former illegal aliens were amnestied in the 1980s and many had children. And a HUGE chunk of Hispanics/Latinos know someone or are related to someone that is an illegal alien. Many of the legal ones sympathize with illegals... specially when nudged by liberal propaganda.
Democrats want to turn Hispanics into a disenfranchised minority by using the immigration issue. They think they can turn Hispanics into the "Browns" that give them 95% of their vote, just like "blacks" do. Illegals and sympathizers alike are being conditioned to see illegal immigration as a race issue.
The point is controlling the issue. The point is fighting illegal immigration with subtlety and finesse. The point is turning states like California conservative again. The point is not letting Hispanic youth that will vote grow up into loyal Democrat voters, disenfranchised "brown" people.
We also need to look at our labor market. American workers have to compete with third world labor, it's unavoidable. The only workers appealing to some American businesses are those who will work outside the oppressive labor regulations and taxes implemented by left wing politicians. No union salaries, no union benefits, no draconian taxes to employ them.... why would any capitalist pass on them?
Deregulation, tax cuts, and enforcement are all needed together to fix the labor market. Get as much red tape and oppression out of main street job providers while enforcing immigrations laws and they'll hire who they are supposed to.
D*mn straight we do, USMC!
Submitted by drsamherman on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:41am.
My family has been here LEGALLY for years. My family emigrated to the United States from Argentina over 70 years ago and went through the citizenship process. One of my family's most precious heirlooms is my grandparents' naturalization certificates issued back in 1940. My wife's family emigrated from Uruguay almost 100 years ago, and they have lived in Texas a few decades longer. Her great-grandparents' naturalization certificates are also prized family heirlooms. Both sets are framed in our den and proudly displayed. We are tax-paying, voting, jury-serving, American-educated and licensed professionals doing our best to make the world a better place. We are also a 100% Catholic family. We are insured, have a paid-off home and we give thousands of dollars to charities we believe in each and every year. We are also proud to be enthusiastic, employed and insured in a country that has given us so much. If there is a stronger word than "despise", it certainly describes our feelings about those who sneak illegally into this country and shout that they are victims. We especially hate the idea that these illegals are given in-state college tuition that clearly they did not earn. My wife and I paid thousands of dollars to educate our children in public and private institutions, and our legislators will be answering to the voters for this stupidity in the 2012 elections.
head em up, move em out
Submitted by MidAmerica on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 9:54pm.
I don't think our biggest problem or our greatest expense with illegals is that they want to become college graduates.
In fact, if we want to start weeding out and deporting then we should start with the least ambitious/productive. If they haven't been contributing but rather consuming from our society then these should be the first to go.
MidAmerica---
Submitted by matthewdean on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:03pm.
Zackly right.
Sadly, though, neither intelligence, nor common sense, however, has any place in the minds, activities, or proclivities of politicians.
MD
The mafia is also ambitious
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:03pm.
The fact is that every illegal in a school is taking the place of a legal American.
And every illegal raises the cost...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:11pm.
Of the education, thereby lowering to quality.
How about English as a FIRST language or stay out of the building?
Gee USMC and Radical
Submitted by well99 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:35pm.
You have no heart..lol Don't you know all Americans are rich.It isn't like were in debt.Just think how sharing the illegals are.They use people's social security numbers.That has to help out person who had his number stolen.I am so sure of it I think all those that think illegals are swell should start a organization where they can send their own SSN too.Also those that think it is ok for illegals to get instate tuition I sure won't mind footing the bill.They should volunteer to do it.Alas since I have no heart I will pass on this but I am sure there are plenty of liberals and other folks willing to pony up.
well99
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 10:38pm.
I won't be holding my breath waiting for those libs to pony up.
It's like waiting for Buffet or Geitner to pay their taxes.
Radical
Submitted by well99 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 11:02pm.
Too true.They talk a lot of smack until it comes time to reach for their wallet.
Damn right I have no heart...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Fri, 09/23/2011 - 11:54pm.
My heart is broken just watching how our politicians are selling out this country.
Perry is no Reynauldus Maximus. The democrat Party left Reagan.
Perry left the democrat party, but keeps his membership in good standing! Liberal is liberal to the bone... I cannot and will not support that, or him.
Please, well99, report me and my comments to attackwatch!!!! (Sarcasm!) But feel free to report me!
And you have a point there. Where are the United Illegal Alien College Fund advertisements? Liberals should break contribution records, right.... Wait a minute, liberals are the most tightwad hypocrites when it comes to charity!
Damn right I'v got
Submitted by Boudin on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 12:07am.
The Blues
USMC
Submitted by well99 on Sat, 09/24/2011 - 4:00am.
What!Liberals tightwad hypocrites.No way!They are always more than willing to spend other peoples money.