From Tiger to Tebow: Secular Left Doesn't Get Religion in Sports

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Americans love to talk sports. Polite Americans don't talk religion. So when those two things meet, the news media has no idea what to make of it.

Unfortunately for journalists, sports and religion - Christianity in particular - seem to be publicly mingling more often these days. Some star athletes are more outspoken in their faith, while many others regularly find themselves in need of spiritual, if not legal, redemption.

Liberals in the media don't understand religion and religious people, so when they surface on the playing field, the resulting coverage veers wildly from awkwardly respectful to clueless to downright contemptuous.

Fox's Brit Hume caused a firestorm by suggesting on air that Tiger Woods could find "forgiveness and redemption" in Christianity, rather than the casual Buddhism the golfer has said he practices. Woods, whose marriage and career are in melt-down because of his serial infidelities, should "turn to the Christian faith, and you can make a total recovery and be a great example to the world," Hume said. And in doing so, the former anchorman committed several mortal sins in modern secular America.

The Atlanta Journal Constitution's Jay Bookman attributed Hume's remarks to "arrogance," and posited that religious belief "is a private matter between that person and God, and is not a matter to be judged by some pompous TV anchor." Subsequently, Bookman said Hume had been "crass and rude" for subjecting Woods' Buddhist faith to "judgment and belittlement."

Bookman was just one among many voices. MSNBC's David Shuster suddenly became concerned for Christianity's dignity, worrying that Hume had "denigrated" it. His colleague Keith Olbermann compared Hume to Islamic extremists and accused him of "threatening" Woods into converting. U.S. News & World Report's John Aloysius Farrel said Hume's suggestion was "creepy" and "stupid." And when Hume subsequently remarked in a radio interview that "Jesus Christ" could be the two most controversial words in the English language, Time Magazine's James Poniewozik accused him of "crying anti-Christian persecution." All because Hume dared to suggest that Christianity offered an answer - maybe one that another religion did not.

But while they yelled loudest about Hume's comparison of Christianity and Buddhism, Hume's real sin was to introduce religion into the public discussion at all. Bookman gave that away when he wrote:

In fact, if Hume had merely said on air that his own Christian faith had helped him through hard times and that Woods might benefit from it too, I'd find it hard to object much. (Such a statement would have seemed odd and out of place from a political commentator on a news show, but that's another issue.)

All the outrage obscures the truly remarkable aspect of the incident: Hume actually expressed an interest in Woods' personal well-being. The non-stop coverage of Tiger's scandals has included plenty of speculation about his golf career and endorsement empire, along with the predictable salacious gossip. Hume injected a sober, humane note into the cacophony, but because its religious nature outraged the arbiters of acceptable public discourse.

Clash of Faiths

Had Tiger Woods been, say, a Hollywood actor who'd self-destructed, rather than the world's greatest golfer, Hume's religious suggestion might have gone unnoticed. But Woods is a professional athlete. What's the difference?

If you enter the words "football as" into Google, the first suggestion the search engine offers is "football as religion." Try "baseball as" and "baseball as a road to god," is among the first few suggestions. Both deeply personal and communal, sports clearly share many attributes with religion, and Americans take them very seriously.

In fact, despite all the clichés about how "football is a religion" in the south, it may be truer of the secular coasts and the north. (Newly retired after 44 seasons coaching, Florida State legend Bobby Bowden recently told young players, "The thing that has enabled me to stay in it as long as I have is I did not make football my God ... I'm not ate up with coaching football all of my life.")

So, to those secular sports fans, proselytizing to a professional golfer takes on some of the import of walking into a mosque or synagogue and suggesting conversion.

That goes double for overt religiosity on and around the field. In a Nov. 22 op-ed with the delightfully contemptuous title, "Lord, lead us not into fourth and long," St. Petersburg Times columnist Robyn Blumner accused the various college football coaches around the state of "indoctrinating" players into Christianity. "They notoriously serve up religious indoctrination with Xs and Os, as if you can't play a decent game of football without Jesus as your receiver."

Writing that football coaches are guilty of "patently illegal" coercion, Blumner dismissed the arguments of "[t]hose who are not offended by Christian proselytizing." You may be OK that "coaches use religion to build character and cohesion," and maybe "a majority of players don't mind their football mixed with Christian ritual. But that's not the point."

No, the point is that these evangelical coaches are disrespectful to Blumner's personal denomination, the Church of Tolerance:

These coaches are sending the message that the Christian faith is key to being a great athlete and an upstanding person, a notion that is not only demonstrably false, it is highly intolerant. What if the coach were a Muslim and Islam was being ingrained? I'm guessing that church-state separation guarantees would have renewed meaning.

It's those PC notions of diversity and tolerance that concern even the most thoughtful and fair critics of religion on the playing field. Although he recognized all the good evangelical Christianity has done for professional athletes and, by extension, the charities and communities it often leads them to help, USA Today's Tom Krattenmaker worried back in October that players public testimonies "leveraging sports' popularity to promote a message and doctrine that are out of sync with the diverse communities that support franchises, and with the unifying civic role that we expect of our teams."

Krattenmaker's problem was not with the presence of Christianity in the stadium, per se. It's the kind of Christianity that bothered him, "a particular version of conservative Christianity." "If their take on God and truth and life is the only right one - which their creed boldly states - everyone else is wrong."

That's been an understanding of most if not all religious denominations. There's little point in subscribing to a creed, be it Catholic, Baptist or Unitarian, that doesn't make a claim to the Truth and offer the path to salvation.

Krattenmaker's distrust of religious certitude caused him to criticize University of Florida quarterback Tim Tebow. Tebow has won a Heisman Trophy and led his Gators to two championships, all with biblical citations written in his game-day eye-black. By all accounts he walks the walk of his faith, and has been held up as an example of the best in college athletics.

But Krattenmaker found something to dislike. "Tebow does his missionary trips to the Philippines under the auspices of his father's Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association," Krattenmaker wrote. "The Tebow organization espouses a far-right theology. Its bottom line: Only those who assent to its version of Christianity will avoid eternal punishment. The ministry boldly declares, "We reject the modern ecumenical movement."

Another Tebow critic voiced the same complaint. "Tebow's religion is seen as good because it is the religion of the majority," wrote Gregg Doyel of CBSSports.com last year. "But it's not the religion of everybody. It's exclusionary, and just because you share Tebow's faith, that doesn't mean you're right."

Fundamental Misunderstanding

Secularists resent being exposed to overt expressions of faith when they tune in to a sporting event - or any event. That's because they've misunderstood freedom of religion to mean freedom from religion, and they misunderstand religion itself.

Secularists often disparage religious speech or displays as "advertising."  The Washington Post's Tom Shales did it when he compared Brit Hume's Tiger Woods comments to TV pitchman "Ron Popeil on the glories of some amazing potato peeler," and then took the commercialism analogy further:

It sounded a little like one of those Verizon vs. AT&T commercials -- our brand is better than your brand -- except that Hume was comparing two of the world's great religions, not a couple of greedy communications conglomerates. Further, is it really his job to run around trying to drum up new business? He doesn't really have the authority, does he, unless one believes that every Christian by mandate must proselytize?

In an otherwise positive article in the Miami Herald on the eye-black trend Tebow started, Joseph Goodman suggested that in the NFL, Tebow might have to give up the facial verse citations. "Such displays of self-promotion are frowned upon," Goodman wrote, making the assumption, all evidence to the contrary, that Tim Tebow's scripture references are about Tim Tebow.

Others seem to suspect Tebow's motives, or at least those of his evangelist parents. In December the Orlando Sentinel published a story investigating the rise in contributions to the Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association (BTEA) since the quarterback came to prominence, and Tebow's other, unrelated charitable fundraising activities at University of Florida. The article ran more than 2,300 words and never alleged any impropriety.

Oddly, the secular left is scandalized by athletes pointing skyward or kneeling in silent prayer in the end zone, but wouldn't dream of proscribing the most outrageous, classless showboating.

On the New York Times "Freakonomics" blog last January, Stephen Dubner helpfully pointed out that the NFL should be a ripe target for atheist groups if the league didn't sort out "what sort of end-zone demonstrations will be allowed and which will not ... Why is it O.K. to praise the Lord but not, say, make a snow angel?" Maybe because making a snow angel, bumping and grinding and taunting are unsportsmanlike, and disrespectful to the other team, the fans and the game. Giving the glory to God, rather than oneself, is quite the opposite.

 A common and perhaps willful misconception was clearly articulated by Blumner of the St. Petersburg Times. "As a nonbeliever, I've never understood why the Lord is thanked for his role in a victory but is not responsible for a loss," she wrote. "Wasn't God obviously for the other team? And do believers really think football outcomes are the human trivia God concerns himself with?"

This careless oversimplification is insulting to believers and is proof that many on the secular left aren't much interested in understanding faith. They prefer ignorance. They'd rather mock and slime believers, call religious testament advertising and piety moral preening. They don't bat an eye at a sex- and violence-drenched popular culture but suddenly develop delicate sensibilities at the mention of sin and redemption.

 


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My day is made

Just more of the same from the media.

Tear down what is good, any way it can be done.  Disgusting.

Bon Voyage, Timmy....and keep them all talking.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

I watch sports because I

I watch sports because I enjoy them. I don't watch them to get preached at. Whenever an athlete or coach starts going on and on about their religion, I always think of the parable of the loud man at the front of the church and the quiet, humble man at the back of the church.

It's one thing...

It's one thing to make a speech, it's another to thank the good Lord in a :10 - :15 second comment like most athletes are prone to do. I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever.

--------------------------------

Which Group Does The Media Hold In Lower Esteem?

http://bit.ly/8NEINr

Did it never occur to you

...That their "going on and on" is because they've been asked?

Why is it okay for those in the media to bash Tim Tebow and his family because of the way they choose to live their lives?

Are you okay with that?

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

Straw man, table for 2.

Straw man, table for 2.

Oh, so you think it's okay?

I see.

You were the one who was whining about being preached at.  I merely brought the conversation back to media bias.

You are such a troll it's not even funny.  Which liberal website do you work for, BTW?

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

B, obviously we all know

B, obviously we all know you're a huge Gators fan, as well as a Tebow fan, but here's a question for you: If Tebow wasn't intentionally pushing a message, whatever message that may be, why does he choose to wear his message on his face?  In other words, if this is simply a matter of Tebow's faith, why not write his verses on his t-shirt underneath his pads and jersey?  Most athletes, it seems, are pretty religious individuals, but few others have been as public about their beliefs.  No offense, this is just a thought I've been having lately.  It almost seems like Tebow has chosen to be a target by making his faith so public.  Although I think we can all agree he's one of the better humans hanging around this planet these days.

But I'd also like to point out that most actors in Hollywood, most musicians in the industry, all tend to thank god every time they win an award for something.  Just thought that deserved a mention. 

Well, Ted

I don't think the word "intentional" enters Tim's mind.

It is just who he is, to the core...how he's been raised.  The eye-black thing became popular a few years ago....we'd see "Hi, Mom" and other messages....and I'd suspect it just occured to Tim to put up a bible quote that held a real, and deep personal meaning to him.  I've never seen anything in print about the "why"....so I am just speculating.  It would be a great question to ask him, though.

Again, I'm sure (this because I've been such a huge fan and follower of his, for obvious reasons)....it never enters his mind about being a "target" in the media.

But keep in mind that it's the media that keeps ringing the dissonance bell....not Tim.

Having said that, kindly run yourself over to the Hollywood thread, and answer my question there....explain what is what re: the H'wood unions.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

Thanks for the response.

Thanks for the response.  Like I said, it's just something I'd been pondering for a few days.

 I responded to the Hollywood thread a few hours ago.  I've been eagerly awaiting your response. 

→ Thanks Blonde

By the way, who is this Tommy Tupperware fellow?

I'm thinking Tx Tech is fixin' to sink like a rock.

Barack Ѡbama - The new seat of power

Dunno about Tex Tech, CA

But I hear VolNation is taking a good hard look at Muschamps or however his name is spelled, from UT.  (/blonde tries hard not to laugh all over her keyboard at the Vollies and the defection of their hero, Lame Kitty).

Better up his salary, 900K for a coordinator isn't that much in a top tier program these days.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

Blonde

Hang in there Blonde.

 Some will just have to save their criticisms for the judgement day when "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord". I'm sure that God will be very interested in their complaints about "Bible Thumpers" interrupting their sports events to proclaim all glory to him.

The biggest problem with these criticizers is their complete ignorance regarding the Author of All things. They are clueless about the Bible and the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and what Christans are not requested but commanded to do.

 Therefore, Christians should form a different resolve than what I read here and that rather than back off, we should follow, Tim and Britt and also Colt's example even more.

This is The Great Commission Blonde and most of our friends are clueless and have likely never read the Bible except to cherry pick it for some bits and pieces that they can hold against believers. That is easy to do. We must study the whole Bible and take it in it's entire body of work.

As we read the letters of Paul, we are made very cognizant of all the various persecutions that Christians can expect, from the extent of death to the petty criticisms seen here, sprouting from the obvious ignorance of, unfortunately, the majority of people. I am willing to accept that persecution for Christ. 

Hmmm

Methinks if you feel you are being preached at then the game is over and you've no more reason to continue watching. You are there to watch sports, not listen to commentary right?

Lets have even more

Steal $20 from a team mate, beat your wife, shoot yourself in the foot, have 14 girlfriends or 2 guys in the dressing room pull guns on each other. Yeah, love sports.

None of that has anything to

None of that has anything to do with sports.

Well you can spin it but it doesn't change it

You can spin it all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Hume suggested Buddhism was incapable of handling or solving Tiger Woods' problem. No rational person would be angry that someone would suggest searching for a spiritual answer. The backlash came because Hume denigrated Buddhism. But make sure you spin it into something it isn't. You're safe, sheeple don't eat much and confuse poop for grain all the time.

I don't think Hume

I don't think Hume suggested Buddhism was incapable of handling or solving Tiger Woods' problem, he said it directly.

But anyway, so what?

Troll Love Fests Everywhere Today.

We need a better class of troll, here. ©

 

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

Luckily, mating can only occur above 50º F

Then I'm outta here.

or to put it another way

NBers(Citizens): 271
Trolls(Serfs): 0

 

 


خال

Blonde~

Yes, I've rather noticed that. They all sound suspiciously alike. And maybe it's my imagination, but fear seems to bring them out...a coveted Dem Senate seat up for grabs? Palin on FOX? Suddenly, lots of traffic. 

Coincidence? I think not. ;)

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt (even if she was a Dem) 

Astute observation, GG

Some of them are marginally amusing, most of them not at all.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

→ bashpop

Let's look at what he did say, shall we?

“He’s said to be a Buddhist. I don’t think that faith
offers the kind of forgiveness and redemption that is offered by the
Christian faith.”

Keep working on those reading/listening comprehension skills.

I'm betting you have no idea what I'm referring to here.

Like I said, he said it

Like I said, he didn't suggest it, he said it directly.

Thanks, CA.

→ Nada Clue popper

Answers that question, completely.

Barack Ѡbama - The new seat of power

And there's the thing people are disagreeing with

And there's the statement people are disagreeing with. Forgiveness and redemption is one way to deal with human foibles. Discipline is another.

This article pretends people are going nuts because Hume suggested a spiritual answer. Well that's just BS wingnut spin. People are complaining because Hume's claim to fame is as an objective journalist, and assuming ( with NO elaborate evidence) that one religion is superior to another, is anything but objective.

Thats the fact. This article doesn't combat liberal bias. This article spins an event into something unrecognizable. Its a glorified lie.

Like it or not, that's exactly what it is.

At least nwahs is taking a break from the Rush lies.

  He has a new intensely focused target now in the name of Brent Hume.

  Until Hume gets a restraining order like the several hundred other people that nwahs scares with his threatening letters, insane internet rants and freaky midnight phone calls.

Casting Pearls before Swine

Christians, be they athletes, plumbers, attorneys or ditch-diggers, give God the glory for their accomplishments and take refuge in His love when things aren't so rosy. This is what the idiot secularists cannot grasp. Tim Tebow has NEVER said that he succeeded on the playing field because he's a Christian. He has always said that the skills he has been blessed with are a gift from God. God can use a victory or a defeat to being us closer to Him, which is His goal in the first place. I thank God every day for the influence Tim Tebow and Brit Hume and others are having on a world so desperate for direction and meaning.

~Brit Hume

Made a factual statement about the tenets of Buddhism. As this Buddhist confirms..

However, Mr. Hume is right, in a sense, that Buddhism doesn't offer
redemption and forgiveness in the same way Christianity does. Buddhism
has no concept of sin; therefore, redemption and forgiveness in the
Christian sense is meaningless in Buddhism.

Saying that Buddhism does not offer forgiveness and redemption is equivalent to saying that Christianity doesn't offer the Eightfold Path. Both are simple statements of fact, with no denigration whatsoever.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

Chose~

True, very true. And for anybody who saw Brit being questioned about it, that is exactly how he seemed to mean it -- nothing denigrating at all in his tone/attitude. I think he was sincerely trying to extend a hand, nothing more.

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt (even if she was a Dem) 

~GG

The liberal's universe would collapse around their ears if they considered, even for a moment, that they just might be wrong about Christians.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

My dear chose...

Has it occurred to you that Christians can rejoice in the spiritual commitment ofTebow and other athletes, and in the comfort and solace Hume's faith afforded him during the time of his devastating personal tragedy, and yet still believe the latter's recommendation to Woods, though propelled by the noblest of motives, was ill-advised?

Jer

~Jer

What precisely do you mean by "ill-advised"? (just so we're on the same page)

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

Chose~

Forgive this brief interruption, but you need to tape my mouth shut. I feel the urge to go back on "that thread" and say something...apparently I'm long suffering. But I'm so aggravated! Good grief, Charlie Brown.

"You must do the thing you think you cannot do." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt (even if she was a Dem) 

~Hahahaha!

Hard to resist, no?

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

Chose~

Mfephel wenpph fdkleg wphemph...

<<GG's mouth taped>>

→ chose

I see jer's point.  It is humanly more comfortable to go with the flow and not make others uncomfortable.

But when you reach a certain level of commitment to your faith, the guilt of walking away from an opportunity to share Jesus can be a powerful thing.

Barack Ѡbama - The new seat of power

~Cool

That's one burden Hume won't have to bear! He knew there'd be a backlash and obeyed his conscience anyway..

The first of all qualities is courage. Without this the others are of little value, since they cannot be used.--Marshal Comte de Maurice Saxe

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

chose...

I disagree.  I don't believe Brit quite understood at the time the implications of what he was saying, otherwise, as a newsman and journalist--and a very good one I might add, I think he would have begun his remarks with a caveat such as "this will probably ruffle the feathers of some folks, but...."

Once again...pure intentions, sincere and laudable beliefs, innocent and benevolent motivations--unfortunately...delivered, in part, inappropriately.

Jer

→ Jer

I think the discussion points are probably laid out for the panelists beforehand, as in "Be prepared to discuss with some brevity; A.B.C.

I'm fairly certain he'd like to take back the Buddhist comment back, but not the part about pointing Tiger to Christianity.

Barack Ѡbama - The new seat of power

I agree, Cool.  Although I

I agree, Cool.  Although I am less certain Brit is uncomfortable with the Buddhist comment--which, btw, is the only part of his remarks I have a problem with.

Jer

→ Jer

That's the only part from which he made any attempt to back away.

I think he realizes it wasn't germaine to the point he wanted to convey.

"Accept Jesus" carries with it an eschewance of all other gods.

Barack Ѡbama - The new seat of power

~So

What did you mean by "ill-advised"?

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

 

What I mean by "ill-advised is

that Brit's Buddhist reference would have been better left unsaid, or said in a distinctly different manner. 

[And I've read your arguments in support of Hume's entire statement, but, with respect to that one area, I disagree.]

Jer

~It was factually correct

And said in a way that indicated no disparagement. It came across to me as an explanatory preface to what he said next.

If a Buddhist said "I think Christianity does not offer the Eightfold Path" and then proceeded to explain how he thought the Eightfold Path offered something helpful to the person in question, I would not take it as a slur against Christianity. It doesn't offer it.

What this comes down to, is that you can't watch that clip and not see that the man was speaking humbly and from the heart. I respect that attitude, regardless of the religions being discussed.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

chose...

Many statements which may be factually correct would on occasion be better off unspoken--depending on context, venue, audience, and myriad other circumstances.

I'll respond to your hypothetical with a different but similar hypothetical.  If Brit were a Buddhist and, upon the disclosure of Rev. Jimmy Swaggert's indiscretions, suggested Swaggert turn from Christianity to Buddhism, opining that the latter offered a stronger foundation for righteous living, would you, as a Christian, be comfortable with such advice and believe it appropriate for a journalist to publicly deliver same on a political talk show?

"What this comes down to, is that you can't watch that clip and not see that the man was speaking humbly and from the heart. I respect that attitude, regardless of the religions being discussed."

I have watched the clip several times, and I could not agree with you more--and is precisely why I described his intentions as pure, etc.

Jer

~Jer

I would not take offense at anything said with humility. 

Hume's point was that Christianity offers healing (forgiveness) and redemption. The fact that his focus was on these things rather than "righteous living" demonstrates that he was seeking to comfort Tiger's heart, not chastise him. When your world is collapsing around your ears, you don't want a 'better way to live', you want..forgiveness and redemption.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

chose...

"I would not take offense at anything said with humility"

The question was not whether you would be personally "offended" by Hume's [hypothetical] advice that Woods turn away from Christianity and embrace Buddhism, but rather if you would find the dispensing of such advice to be "appropriate". 

"Hume's point was that Christianity offers healing (forgiveness) and redemption. The fact that his focus was on these things rather than "righteous living" demonstrates that he was seeking to comfort Tiger's heart, not chastise him. When your world is collapsing around your ears, you don't want a 'better way to live', you want..forgiveness and redemption."

I believe the focus should be on Tiger comforting Eylin's heart, the achievement of which would go a long way toward comforting his own.  Is his wife a Christian?  If not, I'm not sure Tiger's announcement to her that he has become a Christian at the behest of Brit Hume and has sought and been granted forgiveness would, in and of itself, be the panacea Hume appears to suggest.

Jer

~Jer

I'm no arbiter of "appropriate" on shows I've never seen; all my points have been to the effect that the man said nothing factually incorrect and had a humble attitude. That said, humility is never "inappropriate".

Jer, if Tiger became a Christian his first act afterwards would be to contact his (ex)wife, express his deep contrition for causing her pain, and humbly seek her forgiveness.

The panacea Hume suggested was for Tiger to seek God, all else follows.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

chose...

if Tiger became a Christian his first act afterwards would be to contact his (ex)wife, express his deep contrition for causing her pain, and humbly seek her forgiveness.   [my emphasis] 

And such is discouraged by Buddhism?  I don't think so.  [note:  She's not an ex...yet]

Jer

~That's why

I put it in parethesis.

Buddhism has no concept of sin, therfore there is no need for the concept of forgiveness.

Since I'm just repeating things I've already posted about this, I'm going to stop here.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

But you don't need religion

But you don't need religion to understand forgiveness, right?  Buddhism may not teach forgiveness, but that doesn't mean Tiger doesn't understand the concept.  

Just a thought.  Carry on. 

So you're just gonna stop

So you're just gonna stop while you're behind?  :-)

Jer

I believe you are mistaken, chose...

...there is no need for the concept of forgiveness [in Buddhism].

Buddhists would strenuously disagree.

Jer

edit.  Bear with me...that link doesn't seem to be opening properly.

Let's try again.

Let's try again.

~Oh good grief

Look at the core tenets of Buddhism and tell me where you see the word "forgiveness".

How many times do I have to quote this Buddhist?

Buddhism has no concept of sin*; therefore, redemption and forgiveness in the Christian sense are meaningless in Buddhism.

IN THE CHRISTIAN SENSE. Which is WHAT HUME WAS TALKING ABOUT. He wasn't talking about some vague, ephemeral forgiveness in a general sense, he was referring to forgiveness IN A CHRISTIAN SENSE. Which is MEANINGLESS in Buddhism.

The only thing I'm 'behind' is the wall you're ramming your head into.

"my solution is to destroy children"--mamabear's cure for poverty 12/08/09

 

Good grief is right!

It was crystal clear that Brit was referring to "forgiveness" in the Christian sense.  That's one reason his well-intentioned advice was inappropriate and untimely.   My earlier point was that I seriously doubt at this juncture Eylin is concerned about Tiger's ultimate salvation as much as his earthly behavior and its impact on their marriage and family.  Perhaps it's possible a stronger adherence to the tenets of Buddhism would promote that objective for Mr. and Mrs. Woods just as well as would Tiger's conversion to Christianity.  I'm sure Buddhists would think so. 

I admire Brit Hume.  I just don't believe it was the time and place to lobby for his faith at the expense of another religion.

Jer

bashednpooped should agree

with you here, chose, since he's the god of the dictionary, lord of the lexicon and thing of the thesaurus!

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams

And b.a.s.h.---

Is also the Regent of Real Meanings, the Dork of Definitions, and the Tyrant of Truisms.

MD

HAH! Good one, matt

Btw, love how you are taking on Oscar the grouch.  He doesn't deserve much respect, but you are giving him some.  Nice!

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams

Hey Bo---

Yeah, I have no problem trying to be reasonable.  Initially, anyway;  just like the majority of the decent people who post here.

Those who show up here with an agenda at variance with the regulars generally come on board firing away like a loose cannon, and then act indignant because they find themselves taking return fire.

What they cannot, or will not, take into consideration, is that NewsBusters is neither liberal nor msm (though getting quoted there with more regularity), and the folks here can be, while a very congenial lot for the most part,  very deadly counter-punchers.

Pisses the pusillanimous propaganda pushers off, in perpetuity.

Keep up the good work!

Repel all disrespectful boarders, post haste!!

Cheers !!!

MD 

Tally Ho, matt!

Bon Voyage and I can't think of anything a pirate would say...AARRRRGH?

Oscar's getting his lights punched out right now, btw.

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the Plain Meaning of Words!" ~Sam Adams

Equal time

 These wingnuts would be happier if Tebow had " Support Gay Marriage " on his helmet to offset his facial biblical quotes. After all they always cover politics in an unbiased manner. Just ask one of them.

Too true

I wish I had the link, Tim took a disabled girl to one of his award events....he had met her the day before, and invited her...then in his comments said something like "she got a beautiful dress and look at her, how lucky am I?".   The poor girl was homely as sin and rather spastic.  I'm sure it made her year. 

Tim Tebow does more by his acts of kindness than these liberals will ever appreciate, all they can do is attack him for being true to his beliefs.  It's disgusting.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

Too bad Ms. Blumner missed

Too bad Ms. Blumner missed Colt McCoy's gracious comments in his post game interview following the Texas loss.   His countenance reflected a peace that few non-believers can understand.

"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"

True, BnB

While I'm not a big Colt fan for obvious reasons, his stock shot up in my book after hearing his interview on that devastating game.  I know he and Tebow aren't good friends, but I would imagine they may become alot closer on the next part of their careers.  Hoping so, anyway.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

I hope when they step up to

I hope when they step up to the next level they either play on the same team (questions about Tebow's throwing style) or in different conferences.  The first could be a potent wildcat option with so many play option wrinkles that would boggle any defensive coordinator's mind.  If in different conferences, they could meet at a Superbowl and show grace in victory and defeat.

One of the neat things I've heard about Tebow is how teammates ran interference off the field so he wouldn't get into compromising situations.  Not that he would step into them, rather those who would do him ill trying to manipulate circumstances so they might make him look bad.

"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"

I may have to start watching NFL football again

I sincerely hope Minnesota drafts Tim.  A year or two behind Favre, with Percy downfield.

Jacksonville is a real possibility, too.  But not as good for Tim, IMO...he needs time to learn how to play at the next level, and it would be detrimental to him to have to play immediately as a franchise player.  But Jax is in dire straits, they need bottoms in the seats.

Colt I see as able to start immediately (presuming his arm is okay). 

Wouldn't it be great to have another Marino/Elway type QB draft into the NFL.....that class may never be replaced.  Never.

I hope he fails, too. 

 

 

YET ANOTHER REASON I

I call the modern liberals SECULAR SOCIALISTS...its how they talk and vote...so why are we still using the false names they prefer like liberals or progressives? Ask Cuban refugees how "progressive" the secular socialism of Castro has been for their country.

Take it to them...I have over 2,000 posts on various Forums and work that in as often as possible. Go on offense.

Every single time you type liberal or progressive put (aka secular socialist) behind it. They are what they are.

I frame all debates in terms of the degree of secular socialism. Why don't you start? It will tie those kooks in knots.

I simply oppose secular socialism...no names, just secular socialism. If your record or words reflect secular socialism...I oppose you on those grounds, not some personal or party baloney. 

Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish

So you're cool with

So you're cool with socialism, just as long as they're Christian???

 

Oooookay.

Awful lot of generalizing

Awful lot of generalizing here. The secular left is "scandalized" by an athlete kneeling in the end zone? This is based on...? I think most liberals would rather see that then some of the ridiculous show-boating that goes on. 

Had Tiger Woods been, say, a Hollywood actor who'd self-destructed, rather than the world's greatest golfer, Hume's religious suggestion might have gone unnoticed.

Well, because we all know that Hollywood actors are hopeless. 

 In fact, despite all the clichés about how "football is a religion" in the south, it may be truer of the secular coasts and the north.

Based on...?

Give God the Glory

Jesus said it all. They will hate you because the first hated Me. Give God the Glory that you are counted worthy to be despised and hated for your faith in God. 

WHAT I CALL DEMOCRATS...

 

WHAT I CALL DEMOCRATS…

I call the modern liberals SECULAR SOCIALISTS…its how they talk and vote…so why are we still using the false names they prefer like liberals or progressives? Ask Cuban refugees how “progressive” the secular socialism of Castro has been for their country.

Take it to them…I have over 2,000 posts on various Forums and work that in as often as possible. Go on offense.

Every single time you type liberal or progressive put (aka secular socialist) behind it. They are what they are.

I frame all debates in terms of the degree of secular socialism. Why don’t you start? It will tie those kooks in knots.

I simply oppose secular socialism…no names, just secular socialism. If your record or words reflect secular socialism…I oppose you on those grounds, not some personal or party baloney.

http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish

Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish

And Yet Neither Seems To Want To Compromise...

"This careless oversimplification is insulting to believers and is proof that many on the secular left aren't much interested in understanding faith. They prefer ignorance. They'd rather mock and slime believers, call religious testament advertising and piety moral preening."

That sounds awfully familiar. Ah, yes, if I replaced the words in the following passage like so...

"This careless oversimplification is insulting to nonbelievers and is proof that many on the religious right aren't much interested in understanding secularism. They prefer ignorance. They'd rather mock and slime nonbelievers, call secular testament advertising and blasphemy moral preening."

My, you have the makings of a Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberfuhrer. The moral relativism is so thick you could cut it with a copy of Cloudy With A Chance Of Meatballs.

By the way, I wouldn't bat an eye at neither of the pop culture or the religious piety. The First amendment protects all speech, whether either side likes it or lumps it. 

Your mom did not bat an eye.

  The first amendment protected the free speech of us laughing at your mom when we took away her medicine.

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