CNN Contributor: Catholics Don't Think Abortion is 'Much of a Sin'
By Matthew Balan | July 07, 2011 | 19:21
Stephen Prothero, a regular contributor to CNN.com's Belief Blog, bizarrely read the hearts of American Catholics, based on a recent poll which found that the majority of them believe abortion should stay legal. Prothero, writing in a Thursday item about 20th century leftist Catholic activist Dorothy Day and her self-admitted abortion, concluded that U.S. Catholics "will forgive Day's sin...because, in their heart of hearts, many of them don't consider it all that much of a sin in the first place."
The blogger, who, according to his bio line, is a "Boston University religion scholar and author of 'God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World,'" began his op-ed, "My Take: Catholics will accept a saint who had an abortion," with a question that he answered with his claim about American Catholics: "Can Catholics abide a saint who had an abortion?" After noting Day's life as an "anarchist, a pacifist, and the co-founder of the Catholic Worker, a movement devoted to helping the poor and the homeless" and her open cause for canonization in the Catholic Church, Prothero described the activist's personal experience with abortion:
Before her conversion to Catholicism in 1927, however, Day lived what the late Cardinal O’Connor of the Archdiocese of New York has referred to as "a life akin to that of the pre-converted Augustine of Hippo." That bohemian life included common-law marriage and an abortion.
Some may feel that Day’s promiscuity precludes her cause for sainthood. But in his February 2000 letter to the Vatican in support of Day’s canonization, O'Connor contended "that her abortion should not preclude her cause, but intensifies it." She is a model, he continued, "for women who have had or are considering abortions" because she "regretted" that action "every day of her life."
...Day did make clear her opposition to abortion on pacifist grounds.
For example, in a 1974 interview, she turned a question about genocide into a discussion about birth control and abortion. "We do believe that there is not only the genocide of war, the genocide that took place in the extermination of Jews, but the whole program—I'm speaking now as a Catholic—of birth control and abortion, is another form of genocide."
The "religion scholar" then exposed his misunderstanding of Catholic theology on sainthood: "Some day, Day may be accepted into the communion of saints as a modern Augustine whose depths of youthful sin make her adult piety even more spectacular. But she could also be rejected as a figure who could well lead some Catholics to justify premarital sex and abortion on the grounds that "Dorothy Day did it.'" Actually, the canonization process isn't about being "accepted" into the communion of saints, as only God can do that. What that process is actually about is determining, through a careful examination of the person's life and investigating any possible miracles attributed to his or her intercession, that God has indeed given that person their eternal reward in heaven.
Near the end of his piece, Prothero applied the example of Dorothy Day's life to the contemporary debates over the controversial issues of abortion, contraception, and homosexual behavior. This is where he went off the rails:
Day's case raises a parallel question. Can you be a saint if you have committed the original sin of contemporary Catholicism?
My money says yes.
Partly that is because of the Christian teaching of forgiveness. But mostly it is because of the tendency of Catholics to diverge from the official party line on questions such as homosexuality, birth control and abortion.
According to a June survey by the Public Religion Research Institute, most American Catholics (54%) think that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. More than two-thirds of them (68%) believe you can be a good Catholic even if you disagree with your church’s opposition to abortion. And when it comes to the question of whether abortion is a sin, white American Catholics are evenly divided.
Of course, rank-and-file Catholics do not decide who is declared a saint. But they decide who will be revered as one. And in this case, I believe, they will forgive Day's sin in part because, in their heart of hearts, many of them don't consider it all that much of a sin in the first place.
The blogger's poll numbers don't tell the whole story. A March 12, 2010 Gallup poll concluded that "support for making abortion broadly illegal growing fastest among young adults." A Marist poll released a month earlier, which was conducted in conjunction with the Knight of Columbus, a Catholic fraternal organization, found that "66% of Catholic Millenials [those 18-29] say abortion is morally wrong." So the future of the Church in the U.S. have largely aligned themselves with what the universal Catholic Church teaches.
Also, it is true that certain saints, such as the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph, and St. Anthony of Padua, are much more renowned and popular than other lesser known saints, such as St. John Fisher, a contemporary of St. Thomas More who was also executed by King Henry VIII. But Prothero's conclusion that the Catholic laity will decide "who will be revered " as a saint implies that some kind of democratic process is involved, when the reality is much more organic than that.
Finally, it doesn't matter whether many Catholics think abortion isn't "much of a sin in the first place." It doesn't change the Church's teaching on the issue, which has been consistent since the very beginning. The Didache, a document which dates from the late first or early 2nd century, expounds on the Ten Commandments in stating that "you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is begotten." It is up to Catholics, if they are faithful, to live according to that teaching.
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Comments
"Religious Scholar?"
Submitted by CobraMan on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 8:13pm.
What ever happened to Theologians? The original "religious scholars?" Somehow, I just can't imagine this man on the same level as, say, Thomas Aquinas when dealing with the study of Catholicism. I can pretty much guarantee you that there will never be a college named after "Saint Stephen Prothero."
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
I am a Catholic
Submitted by octavioj on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 8:11pm.
And I believe life begins at conception. So abortion on demand is imoral and should be illegal. There I said it.
Amen.
Submitted by Soldat44 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 1:10pm.
Amen.
The anti-Catholic media
Submitted by Radical1979 on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 8:23pm.
The media seems intent on destroying the tenants of Catholicism. Of course we can accept sinners as saints, if they have truly repented and been granted absolution. Part of absolution is recognizing that you have committed a sin and resolve not to repeat it. That doesn't mean we would accept as a saint a woman who had an abortion and advocated FOR abortion.
Why doesn't the media go after islam? Oh that's right, they kill anyone who questions their religion.
Sin and man
Submitted by Curly on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 8:40pm.
It is not up to "humans" to determine sin - God has done that for us.
As a Catholic, I can surely say,,
Submitted by NJRightWinger12 on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 9:01pm.
It IS a sin! As a person, I can surely say, its totally WRONG! As an American, I can surely say,,these people are friggin wacked! And thats what they should be!
I don't disagree but...
Submitted by Cae on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 9:02pm.
Catholics are a diverse group.
I don't think the stats are wrong.
My fear is this will information will be used to mock the position of many Catholics and the Church itself. The left will grab hold of anything to advance its agenda.
This is a disagreement between Catholics about Catholicism. Everyone else butt out!
Let me translate "Abortion is not much of a sin" = I am uncomfortable criticizing women who have had abortions but it is a sin.
Everyone else butt out!
Submitted by NC Boy on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 9:32pm.
It's fine for you to say that, but the very, very sad fact is that Catholic legislators and judges basically paved the way for abortion-on-demand and have kept it intact all these years. So, as a non-Catholic, I certainly hope that this "disagreement between Catholics and Catholicism" gets settled in favor of LIFE in the next decade or two.
Everyone else butt out!
Submitted by Cae on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 11:47pm.
My point is that Catholics are not all the same. It will never be resolved. I don't like being lumped in as "all" Catholics as I am sure no one would. We have to figure out for ourselves how to accept one another. This is what I meant.
I also think the information about Catholics being disproportionately responsible for abortion legislation is part of the left's way of creating greater division where they sense disagreement. It is part of the current assault on Catholicism.
With all due respect to my brother / sister Catholic
Submitted by GW on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 9:34am.
Just because there are diverse opinions within the leity does not mean that all opinions are validly Catholic. You did not imply that all opinions were legitimately Catholic; I just wanted to state it explicitly for those who may not immediately recognize this.
There are subjects within Catholicism that do have a variety of equally valid positions. However, the classification of abortion as a mortal sin is not one of them.
It's pretty difficult to get
Submitted by Soldat44 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 1:08pm.
It's pretty difficult to get an 'official' statement on social/life issues from the protestant world when there is no central authority with which to speak from. Hence, 32,000 various protestant denominations.
Protestant Lack of "Central Authority"
Submitted by NC Boy on Sat, 07/09/2011 - 12:38pm.
Yes, it's much better to have a "central authority" that makes pronouncements which are ignored and contradicted by some of the most prominent "adherents" in the country.
Everyone else butt out!
Submitted by NC Boy on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:47am.
I'm no leftist, so forget that. But how can you (or anyone) disagree with the statement on CNN, "because, in their heart of hearts, many of them don't consider it all that much of a sin in the first place." It's simply true. Very sad, but true.
I know many Catholics (including my nephew and family) who are warriors in the Pro-Life fight, but I can only view them as individuals; not as members of a church taking a consistent ethical stand. The "official" church message is completely diluted by the Kennedys, Kerrys, Pelosis, etc who remain "members in good standing". It is also diluted by the thousands of Catholic women who "vote with their womb".
Sorry, but that's the way it looks to this non-Catholic. As a result, I think the unborn babies of the world would be better off if the Catholic Church would drop its voice, rather than continuing a hypocritical posture.
I think the Church itself bears some responsibility here
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:57am.
I say this as a non-Catholic, who is pro-life.
If the Church had sanctioned the Kennedys, Kerrys, and Pelosis for their staunch pro-abortion views, perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation today. I understand that it is somewhat of a "damned if you do/don't" situation, as we are not so far removed from the first Catholic president and all that that implied. However.
I throw this idea out for discussion, with no intention to bash or to encourage bashing.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 138 (and Counting)
Blonde
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:02am.
Can you imagine the Catholic bashing and cries of Papism if the church publicly condemned politicians for their stance on public issues? I hope that they were counseled privately by their pastors, but regardless, any public censure by the Catholic church would have caused people to claim the church was interfering in politics. And they might be right.
An excellent point, Rad
Submitted by Blonde on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:08am.
But how can the Church condone the public flaunting of its doctrine, particularly about something so sacred as the taking of a human life? After all, the Catholic Church still teaches abstinence and the rhythm method of birth control.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 138 (and Counting)
Blonde
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:30am.
Well, my sins are not something I would want exposed and discussed in public. I can only assume that they would treat the sins of public figures the same way.
I'm not always comfortable with the internal workings of my church, but are other churches held up to the same scrutiny?
Heart of hearts?
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:58am.
How do you, or anyone at CNN, know what is in someone's "heart of hearts"?
It is not the church that is hypocritical, it's the politicians who declare themselves to be Catholic.
As a non-Catholic, please don't tell my church what to do, and I won't tell your church what to do.
Heart of hearts
Submitted by NC Boy on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 12:01pm.
We know conclusively what is in peoples' hearts by their actions:
1. Politicians who call themselves Catholic but vote in lockstep with the Anti-Life movement show that they don't consider abortion to be "much of a sin".
2. Catholic educational institutions (eg. Notre Dame) that condone anti-life speakers and positions show that they don't consider abortion to be "much of a sin".
3. Individual Catholic women who have abortions show that they don't consider abortion to be "much of a sin".
I'm not interested in criticizing you or your church. And if it was 1975 or 1980, I would still have hope for a Catholic contribution to Pro-Life. But it's 2011. The CNN speaker qualified his statement with the word, "many", so he wasn't criticizing every Catholic or the whole church. He was simply stating a fact, "in their heart of hearts, many of them don't consider it [abortion] all that much of a sin in the first place"
NC Boy: re: the “Butt out” mini-thread.
Submitted by Grumpy in Arizona on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:18am.
I do not question your conservative credentials, and applaud your stance on pro-life, however I do think you are missing a point in that “Catholic politicians and judges” do not speak to (or represent) the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but instead speak to their own deceptions of faith or (in the case of the Pelosi’s, Kennedy’s, etc.) their own comforts [MHO]. Therefore, the “hypocrisies” does not lay upon the Church… but upon the voices that try and manipulate the teachings.
The Church (and all Christian churches) have a duty to make their voices loud, strong, and unwavering so that the truths win-out over the lies.
- Grump :o)
Grump
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:24am.
Well said.
Grump on "Butt out" mini-thread
Submitted by NC Boy on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 12:06pm.
Well said. But as an "outsider" I just want you folks to realize that the "face" of the Catholic Church in America IS those politicians and judges. We don't know what your church leaders are saying. We only know that they appear to be very ineffectual. My point is that if the Catholic Church isn't going to go "all in" for pro-life, it should drop its voice because it is only confusing the issues.
NC Boy: It's a Balancing Act - No doubt about it.
Submitted by Grumpy in Arizona on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 12:25pm.
I do wish the Church would tell the "Catholic-Lite" politicians to zip it... But essentially, all the Church can do is explain their arguments and try to bring reconciliation through Christ for those who misinterpret the message. IMHO, that means encouraging the wayward – not denouncing them. (Of course, sometimes a good slap-up the side of the head works too.)
- Grump :o)
P.s.: I’m not a Catholic theologian or scholar… just a Catholic sinner who needs that same type of encouragement – and wow – Do I ever need that encouragement! LOL!
Thanks for the Discussion!
Submitted by NC Boy on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 12:57pm.
We have a lot in common! I am a Baptist sinner!
I have learned about the "insider" position and frustrations from this discussion, and I thank you. I would like to see more discussions like this on this forum.
Catholic does not equal Sharia
Submitted by Radical1979 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:53am.
Catholic's cannot rule based on our religion. Legislatures, I believe, are wrong when they legislate for abortion. But judges cannot use religious beliefs to make their decisions.
Yow! Lots of discussion here
Submitted by GW on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:44am.
There is lots of blame to go around. A lot of it has to do with who is considered a Catholic. A person who is Baptised in the Catholic Church, even as an infant, is considered by the Church to be Catholic forever.
The official teachings of the Catholic Church are not hard to find or determine. You can read the Bible for the source of the Revelation and you can read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the official interpretation of the Revelation. There are tons of documents (Council documents, Papal encyclicals, the Code of Canon law, etc.) that clearly explain the official teachings.
That being said, a person who disagrees with everything the Church teaches can still consider himself or herself a Catholic and publicly claim that. One example that comes to mind is the group f women who think of themselves as ordained Catholic priests, even though such an action carries with it an automatic self-excommunication. Likewise, Catholic politicians create scandal by endorsing and encouraging abortion and other behaviors considered gravely sinful by the Catholic Church. So, those individuals bear much of the blame.
Blonde is correct in saying that the Church heirarchy also bears some blame by virtue of inaction. That is a major bone of contention of many faithful Catholics. But, that is changing. There are some welcome outspoken Bishops who are publicly correcting the politicians in their Diocese. The examples that come to my mind immediately are Archbishop Chaput of Denver, and Tobin of Providence, RI (who put a lot of effort into that state's gay marriage debate). On the other hand, you have Dolan of NYC. He did fight against gay marraige in his state, but won't deny Communion from the NY Governer Cuomo. Similarly, Neideruer from San Francisco hasn't denied Communion from Pelosi (also from San Fran). The only time he spoke up against her is when Pelosi tread on his turf (his office as teacher of his flock) by claiming Augustine would have endorsed abortion.
Rad notes that whenever a Catholic 'official' criticizes a politian, he is accused of violating the so-called Separation of Church and State. Just such criticism is laid against Canon Lawyer Ed Peters who demonstrates through the technical application of Canon (~Church) Law that Cuomo whould be denied Communion.
So, NC, please do continue to publicly point out the scandal of Catholics not living in accordance to our faith. Enough outcry from outside as well as inside the Church will hopefully encourage our Bishops to do something about it.
GW - Thanks , , , I think
Submitted by NC Boy on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 1:58pm.
I'm delighted to have some real discussion on this forum, no matter what the subject!
You make a good point that there is always "Separation of Church and State" criticism when any government official takes a moral stand. Immoral stands are, of course, quite welcome.
Unfortunately, the lions have the lambs right where they want them.
Sin is sin wether it is a
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 10:23pm.
Sin is sin wether it is a simple untruth or a murder. Sin has been with us since the day Eve ate of the fruit and gave it to Adam. It is getting worse and more accepted as the years go by. So one day the CC may likely promote to saint who has had an abortion or even killed a person.
What Rad said
Submitted by GW on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 9:15am.
Peter denied Christ 3 times, Thomas doubted the Resurrection, and all the rest except two Marys and John abandoned Christ. And those are all revered as Saints. The important thing to remember is that they all repented and adhered to the faith to their end.
UNFORTUNATELY
Submitted by KornKing on Thu, 07/07/2011 - 10:42pm.
Most Catholics, as well as mainline Protestants, and a number of Evangelicals-allow their "world View" to dictate to their "Faith View", which is exactly backwards
No No No don't pin that on us
Submitted by Cae on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 12:03am.
Do not pin the Star Trek like one world vision on us. This vision is a progressive ideal.
I think I have become more tolerant and compassionate towards others as I have gotten older and beaten up by life.
I get the concept that final judgement is up to God and God alone much better than I did as I kid in the glow of I need to be the perfect Catholic. I think I am the compassionate conservative and follow the example set by Christ.
Nicely put Cae. God Bless.
Submitted by Soldat44 on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 12:56pm.
Nicely put Cae. God Bless.
When pro-aborts say that some Catholics support abortion,
Submitted by ekslib on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 8:46am.
they are destroying their own argument that pro-lifers are "forcing their religious beliefs on others."
If (as they say) Catholics are BOTH pro-life and pro-abortion, there must be MORE than religious beliefs at work here.
St. Paul persecuted Christians, but repented and
Submitted by ekslib on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 8:49am.
"became" a saint. I'd guess Dorothy Day was capable of repentance.
It’s a complex argument about “Faith.”
Submitted by Grumpy in Arizona on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 9:18am.
IMHO, the basic all-Christian article of faith is: John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life” - In my mind, the secondary phrase “so that everyone who believes in him…” is germane to this argument. (Note: Further amplification of the passage is found in the passages 17-19 of John 3).
So it is my Catholic belief that anyone, regardless of sect, with a misguided “faith” in God can easily, deludes themselves into believing that abortion is no big deal. But John 3:16-19 also shows us the infinite wisdom of God’s patience and love and His desire for us to share in the eternal life and directs us to not make the judgments [about others] that are His rightfully to make.
So yes, it is possible for one to have an abortion (or support abortion) and only after God’s redemptive process has taken place, still become a “Saint.” Where many err is in believing there doesn’t need to be a “redemptive process” to gain eternal life.
Finally (because of my eccentric sense of humor), let me just suggest to CNN’s Stephen Prothero that he develop a “reality show” to go along with his warped analysis and viewpoint… he can call it “American Saint.”
- Grump :o)
CNN
Submitted by jessieH on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 9:59am.
Sounds like CNN is trying to put words in people's mouths.
What a bunch of bull.
Submitted by wiwf on Fri, 07/08/2011 - 10:30am.
What a bunch of bull. Catholics do still see abortion as a sin. Day's just as crazy as those liberal priests who try and bring in praise bands and dancing in lieu of hymns.