CNN's Roland Martin and Guests Tout 'Progressive Evangelical' Future

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Roland Martin, CNN Anchor | NewsBusters.orgOn Wednesday’s No Bias, No Bull program, CNN anchor Roland Martin forgot the first part of his show’s title and featured three “progressive Christian” guests who all criticized the “religious right” and affirmed his view that you can “love God, go to church every Sunday, and not be a die-hard social conservative.” He did not host one religious conservative on his panel. The anchor even promised to check up on the three and “see if you guys are able to put this [progressive Christian] movement together, and we’ll follow it to the conclusion.”

Martin began the segment, which started 41 minutes into the 8 pm Eastern hour of the CNN program, with his usual criticism of social conservatives: “I’m an evangelical, but I think the faith should focus on more than just abortion and whether marriage should just be between a man and a woman. As police brutality, poverty, funding inequality in our schools, the high infant mortality rate in our inner cities -- they’re all issues that I, as a Christian, care about, but they rarely top the religious right’s agenda.” He then asked as his general question to his guests, “So, is there a place for progressive evangelicals in this country?”

As you might expect, all three of his guests -- the Reverend Joel Hunter, pastor of Northland Church, Reverend Serene Jones, president of the Union Theological Seminary, and Frank Schaeffer -- all answered this question affirmatively, and each one had their criticism of religious conservatives. Martin first asked Schaeffer if he believed that “progressive Christians have been meek and silent, and frankly, being bullied by social conservatives into submission.” Schaeffer not only acknowledged that he believed this, but later went so far of blaming the “religious right” for the Iraq War and the bad economy. He even accused them of being “anti-American,” because in his view, “they hate pluralistic diverse America. What they want is a homogenous white America most of the time.”

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Martin asked Reverend Jones to define what she thought defines a progressive evangelical. She replied, “To be evangelical means that you have a good news to profess to the world. Unfortunately, the right has absconded with the term.” She also acknowledged that her institution, the Union Theological Seminary, was “a social justice school, one of the most radical in the world.”

Rev. Hunter then outlined what his top issues were: “Poverty, climate change, justice issues, all of these things are -- health care. All of these things are things that Jesus addressed in his ministry, and so we are oriented toward what Jesus addressed, not just a couple of issues that are still important. But we’re not narrow, we’re not totally negative. We’re not just automatically combative. We want to be constructive in this whole arena.” Jesus addressed climate change?

Later, Martin seemed to despair of the challenge ahead for “progressive evangelicals” in facing their opponents on the right: “Serene, but how do you build this movement though, because the reality is the right, they have an infrastructure. They have organizations. They understand media. They know how to work the system. So how do you try to build this progressive evangelical movement?” Reverend Jones answered in part, “ One of the challenges is that progressive Christians do not have a politics of exclusion, and exclusion organizes people. When you’re open and you’re trying to bring as many people to the table as possible....You’re always going to have a hard time rallying the same kind of attention.”

Near the end of the segment, Schaeffer tried to sell President Obama as a “progressive evangelical” leader: “The fact of the matter is we actually have a progressive Christian who’s a leader right now, and his name is Barack Obama. He is a born-again Christian. He is a progressive Democrat. I happen to be an independent voter. I’m not going out there for Democrats, but we do have a progressive Christian leader. He’s sitting in the White House right now having just come back from a wonderful tour of Europe where he’s wowed the world and shown them a new face of America, a more compassionate and inclusive face, and that’s really what we have to be about in the future. So I’m very optimistic.”

Martin concluded by thanking his guests and by making a promise: “Well, Frank, Joel and Serene, I’m going to be watching to see what happens. And so we’ll see if you guys are able to put this movement together, and we’ll follow it to the conclusion. I certainly appreciate it. Thanks a lot.”

—Matthew Balan is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.


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Martin concluded by

Martin concluded by thanking his guests and by making a promise: “Well, Frank, Joel and Serene, I’m going to be watching to see what happens. And so we’ll see if you guys are able to put this movement together, and we’ll follow it to the conclusion.

   Trying to compete against the Religious Right by copying their organization.  Makes one think of all the attempts to find the 'progressive' voice to match Rush Limbaugh.  They will always fail because they are just shallow imitations.

PumpkinHead speaks

PumpkinHead:  "As police brutality, poverty, funding inequality in our schools, the
high infant mortality rate in our inner cities -- they’re all issues
that I, as a Christian, care about"

No, Roland.  Those are issues that you, as An Aggrieved Black Person(tm), care about.  Why not be honest about where you're coming from instead of holding up your Christian faith as the supposed reason for your priorities.

And, of course, as a Christian, things like incredibly high inner city murder rates and fatherless "families" didn't quite make the cut.  Yeah, better focus on all that police brutality that's going on.  Those bad, bad cops.  Same stuff we heard the other week from the creeps out in Oakland paying homage to the rapist/cop killer.

Where does CNN find these a-holes?

→ PumpkinHead

Those are also issues he believes are due an extra-extra special truckload of money to be funnelled through select organizations to ensure the perpetual existence of the problems he cites.

There's lots of money to be made in rewarding failure.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

All these attacks

All these attacks coming this week, the holiest week for Christians who believe the Bible to be the word of God is just another good chance to bash us. They may get by with bashing God's people here on earth but they won't get by with it in the hereafter.

I don't recall Chairman Mao-Boma every confessing to be born again. He was baptized into a church but I have my doubts about that particular church anyway.

Semper suprene nitens

it's perfectly appropriate this week...

Of all religious faiths, none has been persecuted more than the Christian faith. As the handbook of Christianity, what does the Bible say about persecution? When we suffer today for our faith in Christ, we are sharing in His suffering. Through it, we become stronger and wiser. Additionally, those who do not yet believe will look at us and see the firmness of our faith. Our patient suffering may even draw them to believe. Know this: When God permits suffering of any kind, including persecution for our faith, it is always for our greater good.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:43-44).

wrong way

CNN has this wrong so many different ways it's really hard to comment on. Let's take the easy issue.

What is the "high mortality rate" number? Does it come close to the one million premeditated child murders per year? It's not clear to me why killing innocents is less important than "high mortality rate[s]" and it never will be. Why not stop the sin of murder while working on the other problem? Millions of children could be saved.

And how does condoning one sin over another sin reconcile with the Christian faith? God tells us sin is sin. If we do wrong it is wrong, there is no gray area. Jesus has even been so kind as to assume our debt for our sins if we're willing to ask to be forgiven. So what is the point of a "Christian" trying to say sin is ok? To trick God? He is not fooled. To think we have not done wrong? God is not fooled. To not ask for forgiveness? If you're a Christian you know that way leads to death.

People are always looking for some kind of approval for their misdeeds. They'll talk to others that agree and say, "We did no wrong." God is never fooled. Jesus said...

13 “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. 14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it. Matthew 7:13-14 NLT

I guess it really comes down to the type of person you are. Would you rather be warned that you're doing something wrong before making a choice? Or, would you rather have someone tell you what you want to hear before choosing?

Martin is the worst of the

Martin is the worst of the worst.

Roland Martin

Isnt he David Dukes brother?He is a racist so like his brother David Dukes his words have little meaning.

Schaeffer: "I happen to be an independent voter. I’m not going out there for Democrats, but we do have a progressive Christian leader. He’s sitting in the White House right now having just come back from a wonderful tour of Europe where he’s wowed the world and shown them a new face of America, a more compassionate and inclusive face, and that’s really what we have to be about in the future. So I’m very optimistic.”

If you go to hell for lying he first in line.What is it with these left wing lapdogs?Why do they always claim to be independant.Lying piece of trash.

 

I thought Roland Martin was

I thought Roland Martin was the guy with that fishing show....

Seriously, though...those "progressive evangelicals"  will preach a God who doesn't care abour abortion, fornication, or pornography....He just wants you to take care of the earth and be "tolerant."  You know, everyone gets to do what he thinks is right....to each his own.

They might say "Wow, that sucks!"  But at least they'll say "Wow!"  -Duff Goldman, the Ace of Cakes

→ MB

Judges 17:6  In those days there was no king in Israel, but
every
man did that which was right in his own eyes.

There is nothing new under the sun, is there?


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

MB

Maybe they were ordained from here.

http://www.universalministries.com/doctrine.html

You would think that if they

You would think that if they were really christians, their top concerns would be with converting people to christianity so that they could attain immortality. But no, their main goals are "social justice" (aka communism).

Progressive Evangelical?

Wow, just wow.

"As police brutality, poverty, funding inequality in our schools, the high infant mortality rate in our inner cities -- they’re all issues that I, as a Christian, care about"

First and foremost, a Christian should care about: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matthew 28, 19-20)

He should also care about what God says in both testaments: "Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength" which would take care of all of Roland Martin's care points.

These touchy-feely pastors, these "progressives," should also adhere to Matthew 23:27: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean."

Just like Muslims.

Conservative Muslims hate those who that represent them in public light because they draw distinctions between the "good" and "bad" Muslim. Same thing is happening here. Being a conservative Christian and following your faith makes you "bad". Thanks CNN.

You definitely chose the correct name

You make a lot of noise, yet say nothing. 

"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008

I'm a Muslim and I agree

I'm a Muslim and I agree totally.  But the real issue I have with Muslims brought onto shows such as CNN is that they just dismiss criticisms against Islam as Islamophobia, instead of explaining and dispelling misconceptions in order to bridge an understanding.

Let's be clear.

Those three might need to review what being a Christian actually means.  

Schaeffer, and by extension, Jones and Hunter, are deluded if they seriously consider Barack Obama, the man of "many paths to the same place," to be a born-again Christian.  Taking Obama's own words regarding Christianity at face value is enough to understand that the man has had no salvation experience, and no expectation by which to legitimately claim to be a follower of Christ.  

Those of us who are Christians pray that, someday soon, Obama will become a Christian, but as of now, he is not.

And Frank, the word you were searching for with regard to Obama isn't "wowed," but rather "bowed," as in "The President of the United States of America bowed, subserviently, to the King of Saudi Arabia."

"New face."  Yeah, right.  If that's what you folks think you have to be about, knock yourselves out--but don't try and confuse people by suggesting it has anything to do with the Christian faith.

A better use of your time would be in taking your lead from Jesus Christ, rather than from our new dictator-in-chief; Jesus thought the best use of His time was to be about His Father's business, and your friend Barack the Dictator thinks Calvary was an utter waste of time and effort.

Consider that between now and Sunday morning. 

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport...

SOBama can't find a church?

SOBama bows to the Saudi King?

Lets see..

SOBama's last church was not a church. It was a political meeting taking place on Sundays and the minister preached HATE to a willing congregation!

SOBama's daddy was a hate filled muslim...

SOBama BOWS to the Saudi King who happens to be the leader of the Wahhabi Muslim sect?

The Muslim President of the United States BOWS to HIS Leader?

SOBama can't find a church in DC that fits?????

No SH** !

→ Almost Delsa

He thought about attending the Pentagram until he found out read the name wrong.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Obama's father was an

Obama's father was an athiest; his grandfather was Muslim.  By the way, bowing to anyone other than God is forbidden in Islam.  I wish Obama hadn't done it and I am ashamed that the Saudi royalty expects that of others.

I could have sworn his press

I could have sworn his press release said he was trying to "head butt" the king but came up short.
Or maybe I read that wrong.

His step father was a

His step father was a muslim.

Now wait a minute!

I could've sworn that his press secretary said he didn't 'bow'? 

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason

bow

That was incredible. I watched him bow and then a bunch of people tried to tell me I didn't see. They are brazen to lie like that with a straight face.

Watch Obama meet the Queen, then watch him meet the King. See any difference? (I tawt I saw a puttie cat. I did! I did!)

To paraphrase LBJ.."who are

To paraphrase LBJ.."who are you going to believe, them, or your lying eyes?

Progressive evangelical sounds a lot like pretend Christian...

They can tout whatever they like, and CNN can gyrate as much as it wants.

None of them understand that the Lord God -- and I do not mean Allah or any other man-made god, but the one of the Holy Bible -- is now shaking the tree of American Christianity to find who's on His side and who's not.

The gospels of their own that they are creating are not of Him.

And, FWIW, they're doing exactly what the prince of the earth -- not Obama, but Obama's ultimate puppetmaster, Satan -- wants: To have so-called Christians attack Christians who've decided they love Christ Jesus more than the adulation and respect of men.

They can criticize the "Religious Right" all they want.

They get to answer for it someday, here or later.

BTW: They anyone had suggested that pretend-Christian Barack Obama is a "progessive evangelical leader" truly shows the depth and breadth of their deception, or their masquerade as Christian.

As for Obama being a born-again Christian and anyone calling himself or herself a Christian saying that?

The Christ brought and brings life. Unlike Obama, who purports to be one of His "devout followers," He does not inspire Christians to take the lives of the unborn and just-born.

Nor would the Christ do something, as Obama is trying to do, to force doctors and nurses to have to perform abortion procedures, against their conscience.

Obama a born-again Christian? Again, it's the world's way of distoring what that means.

Friends and I pray for Obama's true salvation and that of his family.

It appears that these three people that CNN displayed could use that as well.

"and I do not mean Allah or

"and I do not mean Allah or any other man-made god, but the one of the Holy Bible"

Oh, VERY mature.  Why would you criticize those who criticize your conservative evangelical values by insulting another faith? 

Why would you criticize

Why would you criticize those who criticize your conservative evangelical values by insulting another faith?

I did not see that.  I saw a frank honest observation that these clowns do not know Christ and oneI agree with.  As far as the god of Islam, it is false as far as my faith and the Bible says.  You can believe what you will but false it is. It is no insult to tell the truth.  Now you may take insult or offense and that is your right.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark. clowns do not know Christ.

The 'truth' as far as

The 'truth' as far as religion goes, is relative.

~Truth

Is no more 'relative' in religion than in anything else. 

 

You can believe what you desire

One can believe what they desire and get no grief from me, but I have decided to follow Christ. I will give islam no honor in my life and see it as a evil religion following a moon god child rapist.

 

 

not criticizing

Christians believe that the Bible is the Word of God. The Bibles first commandment is:

3 "You shall have no other gods before me [God]. Exodus 20:3

And this from Jesus...

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."   John 14:6-7

From what I understand, Mohammad began Islam because he believed the Jews and Christians got it all wrong. Also, Muslims do not believe that Christ was the son of God. 

For these reasons and others fundamental Christians and fundamental Muslims believe that each others' religions are false teachings. Hope that clears things up. 

Camelopardalis, I agree

Camelopardalis, I agree with you in that people shouldn't insult other peoples faiths even if they feel their faith is superior.  I'm agnostic but still show my respect and support for others who are of a particular faith.  Most of my morals and ethics are in fact from religion but I don't feel that any one religion is better then the other; that they all have a message that tends to be that of loving/respecting your fellow man.  Cheers mate!

"Mass genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in, outside of
soccer." (Dogma)

Blackwater

I think everyone has the right to their beliefs.I maybe mistaken but I do believe that was what this country was founded on.It is when you push it on others that you step over the line.

Please, grow up.

If by stating an opinon, which I hold deeply, is pushing something on you or others, you must live a tortured, continuously offended life.

You statement exemplies the politically incorrect hysteria that besets America.

And the assault on free speech for Christians.

CKC

Look slick I wasnt talking about you.It was a general statement.Why dont you go get a hanky.You sound like a little kid whineing.Everyone is picking on me.Just a note:The world does not revolve around you.Sorry about busting your bubble.That is just the way it is.Also look where it says subject.Did you notice your name wasnt there. 

Of course, your ilk would interpret what I said as whining.

It's not, and your insinuation won't make it so.

As for the world not revolving around me?

That, sir or madam, if I may be generous, is what someone says when they lack the intellectual horsepower and/or the knowledge to back up something they wish they could say.

As for busting my bubble? See statement I just made.

You know, if you're going to chat, at least try to do with something other than what you're offering.

Being a two-year-old on a playground works when you're a two-year-old. That behavior grows old quickly.

And I doubt that that's burst your bubble.

ckc

I see your still whineing. If that is what trips your trigger fine. Get your diapers in a twist and come on here and whine your pompous and self righteous ass off.

You don't have the discernment to differentiate between...

. . .whining and not whining.

Bottom line: You don't like what I have to say. Fine.

But calling me a pompous a** is a liberal/lefist default for: I don't have anything relevant to say and can't respond intelligently.

Oh, and the diapers comment? Oh, dear. You really are bereft of anything to say.

Would write more, but have to run now. Gotta untwist those diapers off my pompous a**.

BTW, and this is not criticism: I notice that you keep saying "ckc." May I suggest you change your prescription for your eyeglasses or maybe get one, because it's "cka in red state usa," which means it's "cka" not "ckc."

Maybe that's intentional on your part. That's fine. Perhaps a bit adolescent, but so what, right?

But on a QWERTY keyboard, the one that typically most people use, the a and c keys are too far apart for you to keep making that typing mistake.

cka

Happy Easter

Actually, it is a VERY mature response.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and God the Son Jesus is collectively not Allah.

And Allah will never rise to their divinity, no matter how much caterwauling, hair-pulling and gnahsing of teeth by non-Christians occurs.

BTW: I stated what I considder to a fact. Not criticized. I did not call Muslims or non-Christians infidels and say that they must submit to Christianity or die, for example.

Perhaps you might examine your knee-jerk response?

And I'm proud to be a evangelical Christian, inlcuding one who has those conservative values you and the Demockabrats/Dementocarast, liberals and leftists detest.

BTW: If you faith is insulted, then perhaps you might examine why?

Could it be that your faith and its foundation do not pass the test of truth?

And, oh by the way, I will never refrain from stating what I believe is Biblical truth.

If you are offended, so be it.

And, another oh-by-the-way, don't you find it curious that in the world, you never hear anyone say "Allah-damn" or "Buddha-damn," etc.?

Ever wonder why only God -- that is God of the Holy Bible -- but especially Christ Jesus are opened mocked and damned?

It's because the world attacks truth. It has since Christ Jesus walked this earth and it will until He returns.

The world shows again and again it will not waste its time on attacking lies.

You know what, you're

You know what, you're right.  I shouldn't have called you out on that.  That's part of your faith and I'll respect that.  But remember that whenever someone criticizes Christianity, that they may be stating what they believe to be the truth.  In my eyes, Islam passes the test of truth and Christianity does not.  And that's okay.

"In my eyes, Islam passes the test of truth and Christianity...

. . . does not"?

Clearly it does or you would not be a Muslim.

But one wonders: Why is it that if a Muslim converts to Christianity, he or she or their family typically is threatened and/or harmed? That occurs especially in other parts of the world. I've heard Christian missionaries say that; I've heard Christians from other countries who've converted from Islam say that; I've read that.

I recognize that it's human beings who call themselves Muslim who make these threats. Clearly they are fanatics. But it's not uncommon behavior and one would think that, by now, somewhere, in all of Islam, some cleric would've have said, in so many words, "This is wrong. Stop!"

But has that happened?

According to Islamic law as practiced in countries such as Iran, Sudan, Pakistan and in some regions of Nigeria, the penalty for changing from Islam to another is execution.

Actually, does not  the Hadith, a collection of the sayings of Muhammad, instruct Muslims to kill converts to other religions?

Haven't Muslims who've converted to Christiantiy been imprisoned for months or years, until they recant or else?

Doesn't Sharia law dictate that apostates, those who leave Islam -- must die?

Is that the truth that would come from God Almighty?

No. It cannot be. That dishonors the name of God.  

But with converts fortunate enough to survive, there's also just the general shunning by family members of those who convert to Christianity. A Middle Eastern man I know who now lives in the Atlanta area who converted to Christianity--after, by the way, his sons already had--told me of that happening with his relatives.

As for truth, Christ Jesus said that He is the way, the truth and the life, that no man (human) comes to the Father (God) but by Him.

If it can be proved that Allah provides that same path--or, rather is that path--then there would be hundreds of millions more people who would believe in Allah.

But they don't.

That means, it would seem, that they do not believe that the road to heaven may mean only through jihad.

There is a peaceful way to God Almighty. His name if Christ Jesus, the Son of God.

IMO, and I speak as a former agnostic, borderline atheist, Buddhist, Shintoist, Daoist and New Ager (which I guess means I attempted to adhere to Hinduism) the Christ is the path.

He is available to all. All you've got to do is ask and then believe in Him as Messiah.

I can't address all of your

I can't address all of your comments, as I have limited time.  Two hadith address the issue of apostasy.  One in which a person left Islam to join the faith (and army) of a group of people who were fighting with the Muslims.  He was killed because it was found he had commited treason.

Another hadith states that a man (a nomad) came to Mohammed and made it clear that he did not want to be Muslim anymore and walked away.  He was left alone because he posed no threat to anyone.

I cannot justify the actions of some Muslims; often out of ignorance or a means to advance selfish interests, Islamic laws are manipulated.

Many Muslims (clerics and otherwise) have spoken out against the actions of other Muslims.  But Muslims like those of Al-Qaeda get more news coverage because of the radicalism of their message.

Good evening Camelopardalis

I do not believe that you are really a muslim. Your posts directly contradict the Qur'an. The Qur'an teaches:

Qur'an 9;111 - Those who kill or are killed by unbelievers will return to the garden of paradise. (Any relationship to the 9:11 attack?)

Qur'an 2:191 - Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them.

Qur' 9:5 - Fight and slay the pagans, seize them, beleager them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

Qur'an 9:123 - Murder them and treat them harshly.

Qur'an 47:4 - Strike off the heads of the disbelievers, and after making a wide slaughter of them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.

Qur'an 4:11 - Women do not have equal right to their inheritance.

Qur'an 4:34 - Good women are obedient...as for those that you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to bed apart and beat them

Qur'an 4:5 - (speaking of Christians and Jews) When the sacred months are over,kill those who ascribe partners to God, wheresoever you find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms let them go their way.

Islam is not a religion of peace and clearly calls for the violent death of all Christians and Jews. The rape and murder of women is commonplace and tolerated in all islamic nations.

You cannot be a real muslim and deny the teachings of the Qur;an. Al-Qaeda and the palestinian murder-bombers are only following the instruvtions laid out in the Qur'an. They believe that they are insuring their place in heaven.  

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

good post

That's what I did, looked up the stuff in the Quran from the book of The Women and The Cow. 4:89 is similar to 2:191. And, there are scriptures about what to do with Muslims that turn away from Islam. They are just as harsh.

For all others.. you don't need to take anyone's word for this stuff. If you have questions look up what is involved in fundamental Islam within the Quran. In some places extra research is required to obtain proper context. The same can be done for fundamental Christianity within the Bible.

PS As this is Easter you may wish to read Luke 24. Christ shows that even death can be overcome.

Hi, I'm sorry I couldn't

Hi,
I'm sorry I couldn't address your post earlier, I hope this reaches you.

2:191 "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

Regarding this verse, you just need to look at the verse before it for explanation (2:190):  "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors."

4:5 "Give not unto the foolish (what is in) your (keeping of their) wealth, which Allah hath given you to maintain; but feed and clothe them from it, and speak kindly unto them. "

I think you may have referenced the wrong verse here.

4:11"Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to each of his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents and your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise."

Yes, women are given half of the inheritance in Islam.  This is because the traditional Islamic family structure requires the man to provide for the family.  In fact, even if the woman has her own money, she is not required to contribute unless her family is in need.  And regarding single women (e.g. single mothers, older unmarried women), they are traditionally provided for by their fathers and male relatives.  So the reason men receive twice as much inheritance is because of the religious obligation upon them to provide.

4:34 "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."

The word used for "scourge" or (sometimes translated as beat) is daraba.  This word has come under a lot of scrutiny, especially recently, because in old Arabic, daraba means to send away.  Daraba as a word relating to physical harm came around much later, but many Qur'anic translations do not reflect this as most translations are done in Saudi Arabia.  Other translaters have taken daraba to mean "spank lightly."  Either way, Mohammad forbade Muslim men to inflict physical harm their wives in a hadith in which the men complained that their wives had become defiant.  "He who hits a woman is not one of us." (or something to that effect).

4:89 "They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,"

I included this because m1xram mentioned it below. Also, the verse after it says 4:90  "Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them."

Again, it is in reference to a time of war.  Twenty seven battles were fought during Mohammad's time (over a 23-year period), many in defense and others to counter a pending or imminent attack.  Please see http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503546394&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

9:5 "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Again, look at the previous verses, 9:3-4:  "And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve, Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

Also, this verse is not refering to Christians or Jews, because the Arabic word "musrhikeen" is used, which means 'polytheists' or 'idolators.'  Christians and Jews collectively are refered to in the Qur'an as Ahlul-Kitab or People of the Book.

9:111 "Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah ? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph"

The ninth chapter of the Qur'an refers to God's wrath and this is why there are so many forceful verses.  This verse is self-explanatory when you look at the entire thing as it is refering to the time of war.  Also look at the aforementioned verses for clairification.

9:123 "O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

Also, refering to a time of war.  The previous verse 9:122:  "And the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may gain sound knowledge in religion, and that they may warn their folk when they return to them, so that they may beware."

So it is refering to a case under which it has been confirmed by the party that went to war that those disbelievers left behind cannot be trusted.

47:4 "Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain."

Also, talking about battle, not general life.

I am a Muslim and I will always be a Muslim, thank you.  I am not sure how you retrieved these verses, but many of the verses are self-explanatory when you read the preceeding and proceeding verses, as how the Qur'an is meant to be read.

I cannot speak for the actions of other Muslims, but I can say that Islam is a beautiful faith that is dear to many.  Obviously many of you disagree, but respect is all I ask.

Good morning Camelopardalis

Your statements as to what Islam is are in direct contradiction to the words written in the qur'an and are in direct opposition to the practices in every muslim country in the world.

There are only two possibilities:

1- you are wrong

2- The Qur'an and the whole muslim world is wrong.

Your "peaceful religion" is a violent political organization seeking to rule the entire world.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Believe what ever you want,

Believe what ever you want, I don't care.

What I believe doesn't

What I believe doesn't matter. You are the one preaching something in direct contradiction to the document you are quoting from. You are spreading misinformation in support of the enemy that has sworn to destroy America and Israel. Your name for this site should be Baghdad Rose.

That is exactly what this site is attempting to do - expose hypocriscy and deception from the left.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Camelopardalis Typical just typical

Here is your quote... FOR REAL!

Muhammad was now ready to reveal the real reason behind his new Qiblah. He wanted his militants to fight for what he coveted. Qur'an 2:190 "Fight
in Allah's Cause those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for
Allah like not the transgressors. (This is the first Verse revealed in
connection with Jihad, it was supplemented by the 9th Surah.)
Although this verse clearly orders Muslims to fight, the first of many
such commands, Islamic apologists use this passage in the Western media
to infer that Islamic fighting can only be defensive and moderate.
Yet
in context, that is not what it says. Just read the next verse: Qur'an 2:191 "And
kill them wherever you find and catch them, and drive them out from
where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief,
oppression) is worse than slaughter." Slaying them "wherever you find and catch them"
is clearly offensive, not defensive. So the prior verse has already
been abrogated. And there is no moderation when one says that a belief,
or even verbal abuse, is worse than slaughter.

"Fight
them not at the Sacred Mosque, until they fight you there; but if they
fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who are unbelievers."
This is nonsensical. It is not possible for the Muslims of Medina to be
defensive fighters if they have marched to Mecca with their fighting
gear.

 

P.R.I.N.T. Money   30 sec YT 

Camelopardalis, A correction on 9:111 , 9:3 , 4:90 and 47:4

According to the Qur'an, Allah has purchased the believers (bribed them with booty), and all "good" Muslims are killers: Qur'an 9:111 "Allah
has purchased the believers, their lives and their goods. For them (in
return) is the Garden (of Paradise). They fight in Allah's Cause, and
slay others and are slain, they kill and are killed. It is a promise
binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel), and the
Qur'an. And who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then
rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. It is the achievement
supreme." There are no such bargains in the Bible. And that
would make Allah a liar.
Yahshua never asked men to "slay others." In
the Torah, Yahweh only asked Moses and Joshua to remove those poisoned
by the Canaanite religion [the worship of the sun god Baal]
from the Israel. They, like Muhammad's Muslims, were immoral,
terrorizing, plundering, enslaving, murdering, worshippers of a false
god. Yahweh knew that it was compassionate to exterminate the few who
would seduce the many into a doctrine corrosive enough to destroy
mankind.

"The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later
find something else better than that, then I do what is better and
expiate my oath.'", Qur'an 9:3 "Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.", Qur'an 66:2 "Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.", Bukhari:V4B52N268 "Allah's Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.'", Ishaq:519 "Having got Muhammad's permission, he said, ‘I must tell lies.' The Apostle said, ‘Tell them.'", Ishaq:323 "I am the best of plotters. I deceived them with My guile so that I delivered you from them.", Ishaq:442 "By Muhammad's order we beguiled them.".

Moving on we find Muhammad attempting to justify his cowardice,
capitulation, and abdication at Hudaybiyah. Allah says the treaty was
an interim strategy designed to deceive the enemy - to lull them into a
false sense of peace. Qur'an 4:90 "Except
those who join a group between you and whom there is a treaty, or
(those who become) weary of fighting you. If Allah had willed, He could
have given them power over you, and they would have fought you.
Therefore if they withdraw from you and wage not war, and send you
(guarantees of) peace, then Allah has not given you a way (to war)
against them." The purpose of terror is to cause people to
become so "weary of fighting" they surrender. That's what is happening
in Israel today.

The 47th surah is as warped as the man it was named after' "Muhammad." Qur'an 47:1 "Those
who disbelieve and hinder (men) from Allah's Path, He renders their
actions vain and ineffective. But those who believe and work good
deeds, and believe in what is revealed to Muhammad - for it is the
Truth from their Lord - He will remove from them their ills and improve
their condition."

I'd like to put that to the
test - to see if Muhammad is telling the truth for a change. If what he
said is accurate, you'd expect Christian and Jewish nations to be
impoverished and Muslim nations to be flourishing.
How is it then that
the productivity per capita in Islamic nations is the lowest in the
world? Why doesn't any Muslim country produce a single manufactured
product of sufficient quality to sell on world markets? Why doesn't
Islam have a single world-class university or boast of a great
advancement in literature or science? Why are freedoms and human rights
trampled amongst people who have faith in what was revealed to
Muhammad? Why are women and minorities abused in such nations if Allah
has "improved their condition?" Why isn't there a single Muslim state
that succeeds as a democracy? Why hasn't there ever been one? Why is
the inverse true in Christian and Jewish countries? Why is the
disparity so large, universal, and unflattering between Islam and other
creeds? And why did Muhammad's Muslim militants have to live like
parasites - plundering their way to infamy - if Allah could improve
their condition? You don't suppose that Islam could be at fault because
Muhammad was lying, do you?

 

P.R.I.N.T. Money   30 sec YT 

at war

You state that 4:89 is for a time of war. Well they are at war. I have also seen a weapon cache explode in a mosque. This leads me to believe they use 2:191 to justify more war. How many war fatwas have been issued against Little Satan (Israel) and the Great Satan (us)?

I realize you are trying to put a nice face on this but your fundamentalist brothers do not believe as you do. The Jihad continues and I don't mean the Great Jihad of inner struggle.

Hey, if you really believe your brothers are perverting Islam, help us find and defeat them. I'm sure the FBI would appreciate any help you could provide. Who knows how many lives you could save during this time of war? 

When stating truth becomes an "insult"...

...there's a problem.

And those of us who are Christians are instructed to speak the truth regardless of our political leanings. 

To be blunt, "Allah" is a human-constructed deity, at odds with Christianity, and in no way compatible.  Neither is Islam a "faith," but rather a combination of political and governmental theories with works-based religion.  Since it is impossible to earn one's way to Heaven, any system that advocates the attempt to do so is, to put it mildly, misleading.  I'd love to talk with you about this matter in depth--just let me know if you're interested.

If I may make a general request, it's more important that people such as myself are identified with our faith than with a given political system.  We are Christians first; evangelism is merely part of our instruction from Christ Himself, so, at the end of the day, there really isn't such a thing as a Christian who isn't evangelical. And conservatism, to be blunt again, is the only logical home for any Christian.  Were there a more compatible politcal home, we would be there en masse.

--Mike

www.thebrattonreport...

On furthur though, I

On furthur though, I shouldn't have reacted in the first place, because what all of you think of Islam should be irrelevant to me.  I believe in a God that is not manmade, that is merciful and kind, but requires me to be responsible ( I DON'T believe it is impossible to work to enter heaven, but I'll let you believe as you wish) for my own actions because nothing can atone my sins except my own remorse and commitment to good.

I believe in the God of Abraham, as you do.  It is fair to say we believe different things about him.  Although I don't believe Jesus to be a son of God, he has an esteemed place in Islam as he is a Prophet of a virgin birth.

I also take Islam to be a faith.  It has some political elements, but what is most important to the individual like me is jihad (struggling against my desires to achieve goodness), not the holy war stuff you people feed out. 

Obviously, some horrible things have been done in the name of Islam.  But Islam is very beautiful to me as Christianity is dear to all of you.  I frankly don't agree with everything in Christianity, but I do respect your faith.

well cameloperdalis

As you write 

I believe in the God of Abraham, as you do.  It is fair to say we believe different things about him. 

Then either one of us or both of us do not believe in the one true God, since we believe different things we both can not be correct.  We could both be wrong.

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

I cannot return the compliment.

While you currently have the right to believe as you choose in the United States, the Islamic god of "Allah" is, indeed, a construct.  

You reference "the God of Abraham," yet you neglect to observe--whether because of choice of because of indoctrination--that the God of Abraham was also the God of Isaac and of Jacob; that God was not "Allah."  This is an important distiction for obvious reasons, and observed in both Testaments of the Bible.  Yours is, unfortunately, a typically pluralistic response that vainly attempts to equivocate Islam and Judaism, as well as Islam and Christianity.  

Islam is not a faith, for the simple reason that it is works-based and works-dependent for individuals, and oriented to subjugation and conquest for societies.  Your denial of Jesus' divinity is, to be blunt yet again, damning.  The lip-service of saying He has "an esteemed place in Islam" is as significant as saying He was a nice guy or a snappy dresser.  Jesus declared Himself to be God, and demonstrated the truth of that declaration through events we Christians remember during this time of year.  

"Esteem" really isn't good enough; either Jesus is worshipped as Savior and Lord, or He isn't.  And if you are not a Christian, in no way do you "respect" the faith, because you reject the claims of its Author.  What you think about Christianity--and, more specifically, what you think about Jesus Christ--is quite important to me, because what you think about Jesus Christ is the only opinion you (or anyone else) can hold that is of eternal consequence.  Your previous response indicates that you've been deceived by Obama-style, "many paths" pluralism, and that is unfortunate.

Only in Christ is there hope.

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport...

Okay, just so you know,

Okay, just so you know, Allah in Arabic means "The god."  Christian Arabs also use the word Allah.  And the Qur'an does mention that the God of Mohammad was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  In my eyes, our God is the same.  If you don't believe that, that's fine.

And just because I deny that Jesus is the son of God, doesn't mean that I have no respect for him or Christianity.  He has a place similar to that of Mohammad in our eyes; we believe that prophets were the most noble of people.  That to me seems to be much more than saying he was a nice guy.

And Islam is a faith.  Although there is a works-based component as you say (and I don't see why you shouldn't have to work for something good), our ultimate entrance into heaven is based on God's/Allah's mercy.  He may decide to forgive our sins or He may not. 

All I am telling you is that I believe that my faith is correct and you believe your faith is correct, but that doesn't mean that we cannot respect one another's faiths. 

~A thought

Considering that Jesus declared Himself to be the Son of God, there are only two possibilities.

He was telling the truth, or He was a raving lunatic. There is no such thing as a 'noble' lunatic.

 

Muslims do not believe that

Muslims do not believe that Jesus said he was the son of God.  He was not a noble lunatic; we have different ideas of what he said.

~Fascinating

we have different ideas of what he said.

Based on what?

Jesus is mentioned in the

Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of Mohammad).

I'll go with the accounts

I'll go with the accounts of Jesus that were written with a single generation after his death (John, Luke, Mark, and Matthew) instead of something written about him some 6-700 year later.

Just sayin'. 

→ Camelo

Perhaps you've stumbled onto something and you don't even realize it.

You're using the Bible to purchase legitimacy for the Quran.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

OR he truly believed it, but

OR he truly believed it, but was wrong.

balboa

anyone who truly believes themself to be God is either God or a lunatic, that is the whole point

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

I do already know. But thanks for your generosity.

Were we conversing in Arabic, yes, "Allah" would be the operative word for God.  However, the insistance of the use of "Allah" in English as an identity for the Christian God is remarkably disingenuous.

And I don't particularly care about "your eyes," my opinion, or anyone else's--to suggest that the God of Christianity is the same as the god of Islam is, objectively speaking, incorrect.  Islam errs in its statements about the identity of Jesus Christ, as I've already covered, as well as about the core understanding of God with regard to such matters as the Trinity.  Objectively, Islam and Christianity are not two branches from the same tree, no matter who says so. 

Jesus, being the Son of God and God the Son, is unique.  He has a place "similar to" no one, and saying He is "similar to... Mohammad" is condemning with faint praise. To quote a former pastor of mine, Jesus is either Lord of all, or He isn't Lord at all; one must either tip the hat or bow the knee. There is no middle ground. 

Islam is not a faith, your opinion notwithstanding, because it insists that human beings can earn their way into a pleasurable afterlife; faith is only coupled with grace, and grace is not found in Islam. Speaking of a lack of grace, your depiction of Allah as capricious--as someone who "may decide to forgive [y]our sins or... may not" is, actually, an accurate one, and a telling one.  This is yet another way in which the false god of Islam is identified as being different from the God of Christianity, in that all those who come to Him for forgiveness and salvation will find it.  And that includes you, Cam.  

Fact is, Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive.  I respect the fact that, as an American, you are free to pursue the religion of your choice.  However, there is nothing that compels a Christian to respect any belief system that leads people to their destruction, as Islam does.

Particularly tomorrow, when we who are Christians celebrate Easter Sunday, you should consider that while Mohammad is very much dead, Jesus is very much alive. Which belief system makes more sense--Islam, whose founder succumbed to death, or Christianity, whose Author triumphed over it?

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport...

For you to say Islam is

For you to say Islam is wrong because it is against the Bible is like me saying Christianity is wrong because it is against the Qur'an.  It's an arguement that goes nowhere; regardless of what you say, there are 1.5 billion Muslims who believe otherwise.  Regardless of what I say, there are 2 billion Christians that would disagree with me. 

I am willing to tell you what I believe as a Muslim, but don't tell me I'm wrong because it contradicts the Bible.  I don't believe in the Bible, so the arguement is irrelevant.  Obviously this is a situation where we just have to agree to disagree.

Actually, doesn't the

Actually, doesn't the Qur'an instruct all of us to read The Bible?

Camelo

Over 24 hours and no reply?

That's ok.  I already know that the answer is "Yes, the Qur'an does instruct all of us to read The Bible."  I also now see that you are either unaware if this, or are trying to hide from the fact.

Just sayin'

It doesn't matter what I

It doesn't matter what I say, it seems that many here are content on calling me a liar or a deceiver.

"Agreeing to disagree" is what people generally say...

...when they're uninterested in examining the claims made by someone on the opposite side of a discussion or debate.

I have examined the claims of Islam, meticulously, and they are contradictory and self-defeating.  Not merely in comparison to Christianity, but on their own individual merits, taken as a stand-alone belief system.  

And if you'll check, Cam, I've made no appeal to the masses, so your reference to them is not germane to the issue at hand.  The conversation is about the validity of the claims, not about how many people have been decieved by Islam; at the end of the day, Islam's claims do not withstand independent scrutiny, while Christianity's claims do. 

Actually, Cam, in this discussion you've suggested the following: 

1) Religious truth is relative (as if there can be "types" of truth),

2) It's "okay" to follow other religions, when Islam itself isn't so generous, and

3) Eyewitness recordings of Jesus' words are less credible than references written centuries later.

I would suggest, from your own words, that you aren't terribly serious about Islam, else you would not be quite so nonchalant about the attitudes of non-believers.  I would also suggest, from reading your own words, that you haven't taken much time to learn about Christianity from sources other than ones antithetical to it. 

With regard to the second observation--there's no better time than now to learn what Christianity is all about.

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport...

Please look at the post I

Please look at the post I wrote to cocodrie above.  It explains many of the disputed verses.

I don't believe that religious truth is relative.  What I meant is that one of us believes in the truth, but I believe Islam is the truth and you believe Christianity is the truth and it will be near impossible for us to convince each other otherwise.

I am terribly serious about Islam and anything but nonchalant.  As far as Christianity goes, I cannot get past two points:  1) God is not a singular entity but part of a trifecta (trinity), and 2) That somehow it doesn't make sense that one should have to work for their reward.

However, as I've said before, I truly respect your right to practice and I wish you well.

1) God is not a singular

1) God is not a singular entity but part of a trifecta (trinity)

God is indeed one (echad) in Christianity

2) That somehow it doesn't make sense that one should have to work for their reward.

 There is no work possibly sufficient to acquire salvation, therefore one can not work for salvation.   There are works all true believers do because they have have been saved as free will offerings.

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

As far as God being one in

As far as God being one in Christianity, I have heard quite differently from Christians who say that Jesus and the holy ghost are part of God yet separate entities?  Something like that. 

There is no work possibly sufficient to acquire salvation, therefore one can not work for salvation.

In Islam this is far from the case.  But as I've said before, I respect your right to believe what you wish.

Shama Ysrael Adonnai

Shama Ysrael Adonnai elahanu Adonnai echad

all true Christian branchs affirm this

 

There are works in Islam sufficient to the reward?  Then i would say that reward can not be so great.  I speak as to the logic of the the position, you get what you pay for.  We get what only He could pay for and it is far surpassing anything any of us could ever earn. 

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

Believe what you want, but

Believe what you want, but I'm sticking with Islam.  Thank you.

Cp

beliefs have consequences, in this case eternal ones

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

"Near" impossible? For you, yes.

Cam, there is no power on this planet that could convince me to invest myself in the insubstantial claims of Islam.  In my case, you can consider such a reversal to be totally, completely, unutterably impossible.  Just so we're clear.

You said, and I quote you thusly and like so, that "The 'truth' as far as religion goes, is relative."  If you meant to say that either Christianity is true or Islam is true, that would be an accurate statement.  The two beliefs systems are mutually exclusive.  As others here have observed, Islam's claims cannot withstand scrutiny, so its precepts are not true.  Which would make sense, since Christianity's claims, subjected to the same scrutiny, come through unscathed.

No, you are not serious about Islam, because you are not interested in either converting or killing those of us who disagree with Islam.  Since that is the ultimate societal goal of the religion, your laissez-faire attitude toward the universal acceptance of Islam varies from the defined norm.

With regard to your statements about Christianity, let's examine the second one first, because it's the easiest to address.  There is no Christian teaching, anywhere in the Bible, that says "one should have to work for their reward."  If someone told you such a teaching exists, they lied to you; if you've come to that conclusion independently, you are in error.  Salvation is by grace, through faith in Christ.  It is a gift, not a reward, and as such, a saving relationship with Jesus Christ cannot be worked for or otherwise earned.

Now, with regard to the Trinity: God is, indeed, a singular entity.  A "trifecta," by definition, is betting on a sequence of finish for three entries in a race; it has nothing to do with Biblical teachings of the Godhead.  Both Testaments teach the concept of the Trinity; it is an inescapable, non-negotiable fundamental of our faith, and being a description of the Infinite, it is impossible for a finite human mind to fully grasp.

Cam, if you only believe those things you can reason out in your mind, I have some suggestions for you.  First, you should never use electricity, because the world's best scientists still don't completely fathom how it works.  The same goes for aspirin--don't ever take one for a headache, because its activity in the human body isn't yet fully understood.  And the next time you jump up in the air, don't allow yourself to fall.  Gravity is just one more thing we don't fully comprehend, so you might not want to participate in it.

Seriously, Cam, you display all the signs of someone who has been shielded from Christianity, and fed only those pieces of negative propaganda that would make you ridicule it, instead of honestly and thoroughly examine it.  Because I wish you well, I have zero respect for the false religion that has ensnared you, and will be the means of your ultimate separation from God.

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport...

When I said "That somehow

When I said "That somehow it doesn't make sense that one should have to work for their reward", I said this because you and others have been saying that paradise cannot be attained through your actions, only through salvation.  You also said that the Islamic idea of working for paradise doesn't make sense.  I cannot accept an ideology in which that doesn't make sense; this is what I said.

And regarding the trinity, I have encountered many a Christian who has said that God is singular but yet one of three (the other two parts being Jesus and the Holy Ghost); or rather I should say that these are all manifestations of God.  I cannot accept that either.

Obviously I don't believe only in things I can fathom, otherwise I wouldn't believe in God or angels or heaven and hell as I do.

The truth is, you don't know me.  You may think you do, but you don't.  For you to say that I am not serious about Islam is premature at best.  I have explained verses as they have been explained to me, but the response that I've gotten assumes that I'm being purposefully deceitful. 

I am a Muslim and I always will be; just as it is an impossibility for you to become Muslim, it is an impossibility for me to be anything but.  If you think I'm brainwashed or a closet terrorist, I don't care.  I really don't.

I wish you well.

You are, indeed, a sheltered individual, Cam.

You have, to this point in your life, been taking what you have been fed, from whoever it is feeding you, without question or pause.  As it stands now, you want people like me to think that you really don't care what we think of you, yet here you are again, returning to the conversation.  Which means that at least some part of you does care, and is interested.

There must be a lot of things you "cannot accept," Cam.  I mentioned three in my previous post, but those are small potatoes compared to some of the larger questions in life.  

One large question is, from what you say, beginning to nag at the edges of your consciousness.  You "have explained verses as they have been explained to" you, and the response you've gotten is only half of what you're recounted; if you're not being "purposefully deceitful," that's great.  I'm glad to hear it!  Yet you don't mention the other half of that equation--since you're in error, and since you're not purposefully being deceitful, then those who have been doing the "explaining" to you have lied to you.  And Cam, I'm thinking that just might bug you a little bit. 

Having seen, and having met, a number of people who have renounced Islam and become followers of Christ, it is hardly an impossibility for you, since it is a demonstrated fact for many others.  Let me share with you what one such man said about his move from Islam to Christ:

Ergun is the oldest son of a Muslim mwazien. The mwazien is similar to a preacher. In 1982 when he was 16 years old, he attended a revival service in Columbus, Ohio, at the invitation of a high school friend and accepted Christ. Ergun started attending church on Monday, accepted Christ on a Thursday — and had his first piece of ham at a Youth Afterglow activity days later.

When Ergun attended the mosque the next day, his youth group of Shiite Muslims “beat the tar out of me,” he says. Ergun’s parents were separated at the time (prior to a divorce), and when his father found out about his salvation, he confronted Ergun. When Ergun refused to repudiate his faith in Christ, his father disowned him — by facing Mecca and praying a prayer of abandonment because it was embarrassing that his oldest son would accept Christ. Sadly this effectively ended their relationship. Ergun didn’t see his father for 17 years, until three days before his dad’s death in 1999.

Ergun’s Swedish mother met and married a Turkish man . They relocated to the U.S .where the younger brothers were born. Ergun says he was called to preach one year after salvation (he began college at 16), becoming a pastor at age 17 to a small country church in Manchester, Kentucky.

He says it was a mystery to him that God would call him because at the time, Ergun didn’t speak English very well and didn’t fully understand the Scriptures. He felt that he was all alone because neither his mother, nor his grandmother, were Christians. But he gladly accepted the call, and led his brothers to Christ the same week of his salvation.  

 

It isn't impossible for you, Cam, because it wasn't impossible for him.  Come on out of the shelter. 

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport.com

 

Mohammad contradicts himself

The Cow [2.111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise)except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.

Religion is the belief in things unseen. It requires a commitment of faith. Once something is proven it is a fact and not a religion. For Mohammad to request proof from others while not providing any, well, that's just not right.

However, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence.

  1. Jesus performed thousands of miracles.
  2. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies and did not leave any pertaining to himself unfulfilled.
  3. Jesus was seen alive by more that 400 people after dying.

It seems pretty impressive and I am very grateful he did these things. I can't "prove" Jesus did these things, as Mohammad insists, so I'll have to have faith.

Please note that things are usually repeated multiple times in the Bible. Even Jesus' resurrection was a repeat of what he had done for Lazarus. God shows his love for us by giving us every chance possible to believe.

Like I said before, don't take my word for it, read it yourself.

I think that you've

I think that you've misunderstood the verse.  It is asking them to bring proof that only a Jew or Christian can enter paradise.  In Islam, it is a general concensus that Jews and Christians who are sincere in their belief of (one) God can enter paradise after spending some time in hell.  There is a verse (I'm not sure which one) that says that a person with an atom of faith (in God) will enter paradise.  A Muslim will also spend some time in hell, but significantly less time.

So there is no contradiction here.

Carmelopardalis

You keep telling us that the Qur'an is misunderstood, that it means something other than what is actually written.

How can you expect someone to accept as truth a document that has no definite meaning?

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ Good Easter Morning coco

Seems to me if the Quran is looking to the Bible for validation, who needs the Quran unless it's to somehow downgrade the Bible's authority?

Never mind, I just answered my own question.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Good morning Cool

Have a blessed Easter.

For many years my wife and I witnessed to cult members and found some common threads. One of those is the statement "You misunderstand the meaning of what is written." What is written always means what is convenient at the time.

The origin of their god allah is a whole 'nother story.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ Got that right coco

Wouldn't have something to do with that crescent moon, would it? 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

The crescent moon?

The crescent moon with the full moon inside it? The symbol of the moon god named sin? Thus the name sinai - the wilderness of sin.

The moon god's name was sin but his title was al-ilah meaning "the diety". Ancient arabians faced Mecca several times a day and prayed to al-ilah.

All coincidence, in a pigs eye.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ Abbott and Costello

We could take this show on the road.  I can be the straight man and throw out the loaded questions while you knock 'em out of the park.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Cool's on first

God, I miss those days. Nobody replaced those wonderful people.

The feds are pulling their money changing routine on us though.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

proof

➡Camelopardalis

The Cow [2.111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.

Mohammad says "proof". What proof does Islam offer that you enter paradise? Have you met someone from there? Or does Islam require faith, that what Mohammad wrote was true?


I think that you've misunderstood the verse.  It is asking them to bring proof that only a Jew or Christian can enter paradise.

There's no misunderstanding the verse. Mohammad is requiring something from others he does not provide. Even worse it is something that no religion can provide.

Have you read any one of the Gospels? I provided a link. Although it won't give you conclusive proof it does provide substantial circumstantial evidence. Be warned, people seeking truth usually end up as Christians after reading it.

Good evening Camelopardalis

The African American Nation of Islam is divided into four organizations. Which do you belong to?

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Though I'm African American,

Though I'm African American, I'm a Sunni Muslim.  Most Muslims do not recognize the nation of Islam because the NOI for the most part disregards most of the Qur'an.

Also they follow a different

Also they follow a different prophet, Elijah Mohammad and accept him to be the son of God.

Camelopardalis, Are you referring to this Eljah Poole Mohammad

Eljah Poole Mohammad

Poole accepted Fard's teachings that African Americans could obtain
success through discipline, racial pride, knowledge of God, and
physical separation from white society. 

After his release from prison, Muhammad he gradually built up the membership of the Black Muslims.
He described African Americans as the chosen people and urged the
adoption of a religion based on the worship of Allah. Muhammad also
called for the establishment of a separate nation for African Americans.

Or who you follow the more traditional  form like this:

For those who support the politically-inspired notion that terrorism is
not condoned by Islam, that terrorists have corrupted an otherwise
peaceful religion, consider this. The world's foremost authority on the
Qur'an is sheik Abdel Rahman. He was the senior professor of Qur'anic
studies at Islam's most prestigious university, Al-Azhar, in Cairo.
Today, the sheik is a convicted terrorist, serving time in an American
prison for the '93 bombing of the World Trade Center. If the Qur'an
espouses peace, that's hard to explain.

P.R.I.N.T. Money   30 sec YT 

Try

"Though I'm African American"

 Give being an American a try

I don't follow you.

I don't follow you.

Perhaps I can help, Cam.

Seems as though it's been about two years since I began to hear about what's called "hyphen fatigue," the growing resentment of what can only be called the attempted Balkanization of American society into hyphenated subcultures: African-American, Hispanic-American, Asian-American, and the like.   

I understand the desire to have, and preserve, an ethnic identity; the problem lies in the desire of many to isolate that ethnicity, rather than use it in contribution to the melting-pot notion of American society.  Having had the chance, in years past, to work with actual, recently-stepped-off-the-airplane refugees to the United States, those people were loathe to reach for the hyphens so many native-born American citizens hold dear.  Their reflections on their new home never were along the lines of, "I'm so glad to finally be an (insert people group here)-American," but were expressions of gratitude that they were able to finally become Americans. 

No hyphens.  Just "Americans."  And actually resented it if you referred to them as anything else, particularly if it was hyphenated.

Quite the concept, isn't it?  Yet so many American citizens who don't even hold a passport, never mind that they've never ventured to another country, verbally water down their citizenship by linking it with a nation, continent, or people group from which they receive an ethnic heritage.

Would I ever refer to myself as a Scottish-American?  Not for a picosecond, thanks.  And I've actually worn a kilt a time or two...

--Mike 

www.thebrattonreport...

thanks

in my opinion anyone who refers to themselves as a -American does not deserve to be in America and are not worth the horseshit I just scrapped off my boot.

 Does that help clear it up for you?

 

What do you mean "does not

What do you mean "does not deserve to be in America"?  I was born and raised in California (my profile says first generation because my parents are from Nigeria).  A significant number of Muslims and people who refer to themselves as "-American" are in fact native born.  There's nothing wrong with people deciding to distinguish themselves.  The important thing is that we all respect each other regardless.

Good post Camel

So why aren't you referring to yourself as an Iraqi-African-American.

It's pretty much accepted mankind originated in the Tigris-Euphrates region, so shouldn't you bring with you all the baggage your family has fled.

I've kept some culture from previous generations carrying my surname, but I'm an American with no allegiance to the country my family left behind.

All that hyphenated stuff is usually an excuse for a pitiful state of "poor me"


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

My African heritage means A

My African heritage means A LOT to me; am I required to give that up because I'm American?  Last time I checked, NO.  My family didn't 'flee' anywhere; they came here in the 70s to go to school when Nigeria was experiencing the most prosperous period in its history (70s oil boom). 

If you choose not to identify with your heritage, I DON'T CARE.  That's your choice and I have no problem with that.

And by the way, regarding your "poor me" crap, I don't believe in affirmative action, nor have I benefitted from it as I went to a public university in California.  Why don't you stop stereotyping and leave me alone?

→ Congratulations

I wouldn't go back to that place either.

And you've stereotyped yourself.  I could be a descendant of blue-blooded Bostonians, but I wouldn't be so silly as to refer to myself as a Blue-Blooded-Bostonian-American

I'm pretty sure I would do better with a Balkanized USA than members of 49 other States, but that doesn't mean I appreciate all the demands for individual culture awareness causing us to head that way.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Please get a life and leave

Please get a life and leave me alone.

Maybe it is time

Maybe it is time for you to grow up a little. No one who matters cares about your Africa heritage crap and not everyone is going to resepect your religion. 

 

 

 

→ That's funny

Please get a life and leave me alone.

Sounds like "poor me" to me. 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Look, I'm tired.  Let's

Look, I'm tired.  Let's stop this.  It's juvenile at best.

→ OK

I can see you have a lot to sort out.

No problem.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I do not have to respect you

I do not have to respect you or your monkey religion. You want to be an African-American, go live in Africa, you will not be missed.

Wow, someone sounds really

Wow, someone sounds really butt-hurt.  I'm here and so is my 'monkey religion'; DEAL WITH IT!

And I still have no respect for it

And I still have no respect for it nor any American who is ashamed to call themselves such. You obviously consider Africa more important to you.

Oh my God, stop taking

Oh my God, stop taking everything so seriously!  You're so hilarious!

I take being an American

I take being an American very serious. Maybe you should too.

→ Hey Jed

Notice she didn't say "Oh my allah" 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

In the long run

The Untied States and islum cannot live in peace together. The U.S. is built on too many Judeo-Christian doctrines. In the long run one will have to go. Is just the way it is.

In 10 minutes I can get any muslim to reveal what is truly in their heart.

 

 

so Jed

by implication you say the 'Bush Doctrine' is foolishness??

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

As Sarah said

As Sarah Palin said, which one?

why the spreading democracy

that judeo-christian based system throughout the Middle East of course.

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

No

No I did not agree with Bush on invasion of Iraq or trying to bring "democracy" (if that is what you mean by judeo-christian based system) to them.

 

 

okay

i disagree but you are consistant

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

You never have to guess

In most cases you never have to guess with me on which way the wind blows.

 

→ Monkey Religion

Given the implications, I wouldn't use that descriptor. 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I do not have to respect you

I do not have to respect you or your monkey religion. You want to be an African-American, go live in Africa, you will not be missed.

jed

do you hold my religion, Christanity, in equal disdain?

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

No

No because Christ is/was God and I put no other ahead of Him. God comes first, country comes second.

Do not pretty things up and say I "respect" islum because I do not. One can believe as they desire and get no grief from me but I do not have to respect anything I choose not to.

It is a hard fact but the U.S. was founded on too many Judeo-Christian  principals for islum and it to live in peace together. In the long run one will have to go.

Look below, when pushed Camel stated that there are 1.5 billion muslims and that we will have to deal with it (so much for respect). Yes we will in time and it is not going to be pretty.

Jed you say say Christ is God

you should act like a Christian, as Christ said "by their fruit you shall know them" later Paul wrote "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness" 

Also, "Be ready to give an answer for the hope of the faith that is within you to all who ask, yet with gentleness and respect."

You say God comes first, and all the while act as though you've never known Him.   

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

Do you really want to get into a Scripture in context war?

Stated that I have no respect for islum, which I do not. (you are welcome to show scripture that says i should) 

Have stated that in 10 minutes I can get any muslim to reveal who they really are at heart, which I did.

Like to know who I am in the foxhole with and Camel needs to do a bit of thinking about if they are in the correct one for them.

Stated that islum and the U.S. cannot get along in the long run, one will have to go. You are welcome to show me where that is wrong.

Do not flower things up, if that is wrong for me as a Believer from time to time, is not the only thing I fail at.....But with me you know who you are in the foxhole with.

Do you with Camel the african-American, who says there are no truths, it is all relative, that you must respect islum and that there are 1.5 billion so deal with it?

 

 

lol a Scripture War?

if you have Scripture that explains how Christians should be offensive i'd be agreeable to reading them.

i don't know about you but i've got no foxholes in my living room

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

What was offensive

Please tell me what you think was offensive?

In my opinion one of the reasons the Christian Church in America has become so weak is too many women trying to lead and too many men acting like women.

 

 

jed

review your posts, you may wish to consider this:

I do not have to respect you or your monkey religion

and what praytell does the feminizing of American society have to do with this?

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

→ Good point botg

Monkeys don't like to suck face, they eat it. 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Well

Do not have to respect anyone, unless I choose to. That to me is a common truth. You disagree?

As a Believer, what do you think God thinks about islum? I think calling it a "monkey religion" would be rather mild. Guess I could call it a "pig religion" which would be more in line with Scripture, since pig/swine is one of the more used terms in it to describe something worthless.

Did not say "American society", I said the "Christian Church in America" and as far as it being too feminized, well look at the conversation we are having now.

As for respect that Camel said we have to have. How much do you think they respect Christianity? Do you think they do something as simple as have a Bible in their home which they read from daily as a sign of respect? As a "proud muslim african-American" do you think they are fighting for the Christians being persecuted in Africa for their faith?

No, it was more like, "their are 1.5 billion muslims in the world, deal with it"

As said, think it is time for Camel to do some thinking. Maybe they are a "conservative" or it could be they are thinking they are going to help change what "conservative" means.

In my book maybe one cannot be a muslim and a "conservative' since in time some tough choices will have to be made, for to be a "conservative" is to fight for the foundations of our Country. Those foundations are Judeo-Christian, so in the long run which will give? Camel seems to say "conservatism' will have to give since there are 1.5 billion muslims, deal with it.

Just trying to find which way the wind blows with them. Right now it is not looking to be a favorable one.

 

 

well jed

to get to some points let's look at our conversation, i brought to your attention that your behavior here IS un-Christlike and brought in supporting Scripture.  You responded with your opinion and insinuated i act like a girl.  I never said you had to respect anyone i merely stated that if you were going to claim Christ you should act as a representative of Christ would act.  Try John 3:17   Remember that Moses saw not the promised land for misrepresenting God by striking the rock.  And do try humility someday perhaps

Your other issues are just those your issues

"Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend,------------inside a dog it's too dark to read"   ---Groucho

If it offends you

You brought to my attention that YOU THINK in this case my behavior is un-Christlike. If it offends you that I am bold for Christ and my country, am glad to know it.

My stomach is turned by milktoast Christians and Americans. At the moment I put you in both catagories. Am sure in the future we will agree on other issues.

Coco

Good question Coco!  Interesting isn't it?

Happy Easter and God Bless you my friend.  

Jesus is the way!  Bless you! 

 

 

Gary

"Things can only bother you if you let them bother you" -My Dad

If you are insinuating that Christianity believes in a man-made

. . . Diety, then you are mistaken. 

The Lord Jehovah made all.

As for you alleging you believe in the God of Abraham (and presumably Isaac and Jacob, though after the Old Testament, that clearly includes Jesus the Christ), with respects, I suggest you reexamine that belief.

As for believing Jesus is a prophet, well, think again. He's either a madman or God, no in-betweens. So you can call Him a prophet, but in doing so you miss the entire meaning and message of the Anointed One. In doing so, you deflate what He was, is and will be.

BTW: Nowhere in human history is there a record of any being who's walked out planet who's been like the Christ: someone who gave His divine life that others might have eternal life. That is one very definite meaning of the Cross and one reason Christians worldwide, except for some very orthodox sects, celebrate this past week, but especially this weekend, as Easter, and Sunday as Resurrection Sunday.

BTW: There is no forcing of anyone to become a Christian. Christ Jesus' is entirely voluntary. He's given all of us free will to damn ourselves to an eternal hell, to real estate, if you will, that no human was ever meant to inhabit--if we so choose to do so.

Finally, I have not said and I doubt any Christian has said, that you can work your way into heaven. If so, they misstate what the Holy Bible says.

Look, I'm not asking you to

Look, I'm not asking you to accept Islam.  I'm just telling you what I believe. 

I never took what you said as evangelism. Besides, in ...

. . .in former decades of searching and disbelieving -- as agnostic, borderline atheist, Buddhist, Shintoist, Daoist and New Ager -- I even examined Islam.

Having once been exposed to Christianity as a child and for a bit as a teenager, I returned to Christianity because nothing else offered what it did and does: eternal life and peace.

And I am telling you

And I am telling you that islum will never have any honor in my home or my life. The problem with that is islum cannot accept my position. You can pretty it up with words about peace and other horse crap but the bottom line is I will speak out against the child rapist evil religion every chance I get and eventually your peace will give way to what is truly at the heart of islum and we will fight. that is just the way it is.

 

 

I have never in my life as

I have never in my life as I recall stated that Islam is a religion of peace.  The term Islam means submission to God.  I know many Muslims say that islam means peace because there is a similar derivative word (I think aslam or so), but this is wrong.

I have never asked you to honor Islam.  I don't care how you spell it, or what you say about it.  I know that my faith is the truth in my heart.

→ Derivatives

What is the strict translation of "jihad"

What is the strict translation of "mein kampf"?


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

The strict translation of

The strict translation of jihad is "struggle."  If you read up, you will know that it is derived form a word jahada which means 'to struggle.'

I don't know what's wrong with you people, I really don't. I'm starting to see what those progressive evangelicals were talking about....

Then join them

Then join them, maybe it is who you really are at heart. I am very clear on who I am and am not ashamed of it, no need for you to try and hide what are.

I'm not sure what your

I'm not sure what your problem is.  The truth is is that there are 1.5 billion Muslims and you're just going to have to deal with it.

So there are 1.5 billion fools

So there are 1.5 billion fools, so what? Are you saying I will have to change because of that? You are saying you will be taking over? So you want sharia? Why should 1.5 billion mean anything to me?

Give me 10 minutes with any muslim and I can get them to reveal who they really are at heart.

The Untied States and islum cannot live in peace together. The U.S. is built on too many Judeo-Christian doctrines. In the long run one will have to go.

 

 

→ Thank you

And the strict translation of Hitler's manifesto, "Mein Kampf" is "My Struggle"

What do you mean "you people"?  Isn't that a racist remark?  Just ask Ross Perot.  He'll tell you all about it.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I meant "you people" as in

I meant "you people" as in the people on this NewsBusters site.  I have two close evangelical friends who are much more respectful.  They don't agree with my faith, I don't agree with theirs, but we get along rather well. I apologize if you found offense.

→ There it is

Seen this before. Gets thrown up in White peoples faces all the time.

Goes something like this:  Some guy will say "My best friend in (College, High School, Army . . . take your pick) was black.

Of course that's taken as an insult because it seems (and kinda' is) racist in nature.

So if you have evangelical Christian friends, wellllll, that's a whole 'nother story.  That must prove your "you people" remark wasn't racist.

Yeah, right!!! 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

what is a prophet?

I don't believe Jesus to be a son of God, he has an esteemed place in Islam as he is a Prophet of a virgin birth.

This begs the question, what is a Prophet? I understand it to  be someone who speaks God's word or the truth.  Jesus stated he was the son of God and the Pharisees wanted to kill him for it. This leaves us with two choices. A) He was lying and can not be a Prophet or B) he was telling the truth. Jesus doesn't give us a chance to sit on the fence. You believe or you don't. It's up to you.

I've already answered this

I've already answered this question above.  The Qur'an and Hadith make mention of Jesus; specifically there are verses stating that on the Day of Judgement, he will tell God that he never told people that he was the son of God and this was something said after him.  So he was telling the truth, but as I've said before, we have different ideas of what the truth is.

http://islam.about.com/cs/jesus/f/jesus_quran.htm

Camelopardalis, here is what mohammad sez about Peaceful moslem

Jesus in quran

Qur'an 5:17
"Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'"

Qur'an 5:51
"Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an 5:72
"They
are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah,
the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of Israel!
Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"

 

"The desert Arabs who lagged behind
[in fighting] will say to you (Muhammad): 'We were engaged in (looking
after) our flocks and our families.' We have prepared for them a
Blazing Fire!"

Qur'an 48:17
"There
is no blame for the blind, nor is it a sin for the lame, nor on one ill
if he joins not in the fighting. But he who retreats, (Allah) will
punish him with a painful doom."

Qur'an 4:77
"Have
you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from
fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for
fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have
feared Allah. They say: 'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for
us, why have You made war compulsory?'"

Qur'an 4:78
"Wherever
you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong
and high! If some good befalls, they say, 'This is from Allah;' but if
evil, they say, 'This is from you (Muhammad).' Say: 'All things are
from Allah.' So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to
understand these simple words?"

If Muslims were to shed their yoke of ignorance, they would discover
that the real reason those who indoctrinate them, control them,
suppress them, fleece them, and abuse them want them deceived is that
the actual message contained in Allah’s Book is horrendous. It is more
intolerant, racist, punitive, and violent than Hitler’s Mein Kampf. There are one hundred vicious verses for every nice one. The book inspires infinitely more terror than peace.

P.R.I.N.T. Money   30 sec YT 

I have one question, if I

I have one question, if I wrap my head tight with duct tape will it still explode?

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

 Yes, it will, but all the

 Yes, it will, but all the bits will stay contained instead of splattering all over, so you can put it back together.

Trust me, I know.  LOL

They might say "Wow, that sucks!"  But at least they'll say "Wow!"  -Duff Goldman, the Ace of Cakes

Believe her Dan

 
MommaB is THE Duct Tape Whisperer. If it's about duct tape and she says it, it's true. She's even sweet enough to share hers with those in cranial need. Just ask her!  : )

 

Gary

"Things can only bother you if you let them bother you" -My Dad

Gary, It has been written elsewhere, our very own MB is the:::

Duchess of Duct Tape.  h/t Blonde  

P.R.I.N.T. Money   30 sec YT 

Ruk... That she

Ruk...

That she does....and speaking of which...mb is my new order on the way...or are you all backed up still?

I'm running low here...   ;-)

Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart

My Personal Beliefs

I believe 'I am the smallest minority' in America - an individual citizen.

I believe I am responsible for my self-determination, decisions, actions, deeds and I accept full responsibility for everything I do or fail to do.

I believe it is my responsibility to be productive and pro-active about enhancing my skills, knowledge and whatever else it takes to provide for myself and my family.

I believe that my identity is based on my individual actions and decisions and not on my race, gender, religion or sexual preference.

I believe in the Constitutional Republic of law, as our founders did and NOT in a Democracy Of 'mob rule' by whichever 'Collectivist Group' happens to be in power at a given time.

I believe in a government that is limited and whose power should be constrained on the individual citizen.

I do NOT seek a life apart from others, but rather a compassionate approach of helping other individuals with my time, energy and funds. I do NOT want to be coerced by a mediator of some 'collectivist' group to force my compassion.

Since my conversion from Humanist/Atheist, I have weekly and faithfully, allocated a portion of my time, energy and funds to help others (36 years and counting).

I accept the statement by Jesus Christ, that the 'Poor will always be among us' and that I might be or might become one of those poor.

I believe in an individual relationship with God - NOT a collective one or a 'Collective Salvation as Described by Barack Obama'.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

I believe I will stand before God (with Jesus Christ as my advocate as described in the Book of Hebrews) and account for myself based on my life, my decisions and my actions and NOT on what others did or did NOT do.

Retired Geek...

Your post was heart-wrenchingly beautiful and utterly honest in content.

Thank you for sharing. I felt uplifted by your post even though a wee tear did trickle down my cheek when I read it. :) 

→ Thanks Geek

Not that it matters, but it looks to me like your compass is pretty well calibrated.


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

This is one time for me

This is one time for me where there is NO grey. There is only stark black and white, no inbetween.

Jesus said it best "Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven."

If you don't adhere to Jesus's teaching - you ain't no Christian.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

What these progressives

What these progressives never seem to do is say, is where are those issues in the Bible? How is it that they never find that the problems they claim to care about were all caused by their liberal policies and liberal governance (or should I say liberal mis-governance).  and that their 'solutions' will make those problems exponentially worse, not better.

Since when are these issues...

..'police brutality, poverty, funding inequality in our schools, the high infant mortality rate in our inner cities', religious issues? More to the point, if you really look behind what Martin is talking about,  his 'evangelical' concerns are not so veiled references to racism. All of his main concerns affect mostly low income minorities, and as usual, he imparts race into all of his commentary. This man is nothing but a race baiting closeted bigot.   

 

President Obama is nothing more than a empty suit; a Hollywood
style special effects smoke and mirrors show that has shown itself to
be a total fraud.
 

WAKE UP AMERICA! SAVE OUR CONSTITUTION! 

Roland's blog on All Things Race :-)

http://essence.typep...

And his most recent entry concerns NewsBusters of all things!

Oh, goodie!  Comments allowed.  Have fun!  lol.

→ Yes Roland

Rush has given NB recogniotion many times. 


LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Many will say Lord! Lord! can anyone guess what the Lord

will say?

Yes, Rolland... I'm talkin' to you!

It's all about definitions

He who defines the words wins the debate.

Liberals call conservatives "fascists" even though it is they who fascist.

If we allow the MSM to define the term "Christian" then we will lose the debate. Unfortunately this has already happened. So we have lost in the public's eye.

Atheists don't like being called "atheists" because the term has a negative connotation so they now want to be called "brights."

Liberals don't like be called "socialists" eventhough their actions and desires meet the definition of the word.

How do we educate the ignorant masses?

Logic Problem

Using logic make all of the following statements true:

1. There is no god.

2. Jesus was not God, but a blaspheming man. (Judaism)

3. Jesus is God. (Christianity)

4. Jesus was not God, but a good man and prophet. (Islam)

CNN IS NOW THE TOOL OF SATAN.

Thats sums it up.

Can Christ accept Abortion?    No.  If there were abortion in his time, he could fall as one of those unlucky fetus ... with no right to life according to the Liberals and Progressive "Christians".

Gay Marriage?    God of Israel was "homophobic", based on the Liberals' standard.

Can't these people stop their "satanic tounges" just for the sake of the Lenten Season?  Even for just 1 week?  Is that so hard to ask?