Time editor Rick Stengel made his regular Thursday Morning Joe appearance today, revealing the magazine's cover to be published tomorrow. But while we learned that the Dalai Lama's photo will appear there, the bigger story is the "cover" Time is trying to provide for Barack Obama's Rev. Wright problem.
Here's the gist of Time's defense of Obama, a distillation of Stengel's statements and Time articles by Amy Sullivan and Joe Klein:
- An important aspect of the problem is that white Americans are incredibly ignorant about black churches in America.
- In fact, Rev. Wright's church isn't that radical as black churches go.
- It was understandable for Obama to have joined Wright's church. At the time he was a 27-year old bi-racial man trying to figure out his identity as the son of an atheist father and skeptic mother and needed a church "he could learn from."
- It's understandable that Obama didn't leave the church: it's like reading a book--you don't necessarily agree with the author.
- Obama's speech was a "triumph," and Americans will be thinking "small" if they make the Wright thing a big issue in the campaign.
View the video here.
I got a particular kick out of this exchange between Stengel and guest panelist Tucker Calrson. Classic white guilt covering for black extremism. It came after a discussion of the quote from the article about Trinity not being a particularly radical black church.
TUCKER CARLSON: So this isn't a radical church, in context? There are more radical churches in Chicago?
RICK STENGELL: Well, I mean, one of the things in Amy's story that she writes about is the incredible ignorance of white Americans about what goes on in black churches. And so, she talks also a little bit about black liberation theology which was, which was in the, the, you know, which people believed in back in those days, which influenced their Christianity. I mean, I just, you know, a church in some ways to me, it's like a buffet. You choose what you want here and there. I think that's probably what he was doing.
"Back in those days"? You mean like way back this past December when Wright used the n-word to draw an invidious comparison between Obama and Hillary? And do you remain in a church when the main course on that buffet is a radical, hateful theology?
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
Comments Policy
As I've said before
March 20, 2008 - 09:37 ET by PawpawNNo where is there a GOD BLESS AMERICA in his SPEECH of a LIFETIME! What did his speech explain, other than "I'm a politician and want to be powerful and President, so I'm going to appease everyone in a short speech!" Overlooked in the whole thing is he did not say GOD BLESS AMERICA! Here's more on my take: BHO's speech did more to set back race than anything in the last 14 years-only OJ did close to the same. We now know that churches are spewing hatred of America, hatred of the white man, hatred of corp America, etc. The candidate of UNITY has now shattered the fragile layer of race relations by never totally distancing himself from words of pure hatred. His statement of not agreeing is too simple. If you stay in a room full of fleas, you are not able to keep all the fleas off! When you continue in an environment that does not change, it changes you, you do not change it. Really what he said just reiterates some of what Repubs have said for years-programs to make things better do not work. We the people believe it is people that make things work, not government! He spouts about how the blacks and lower class whites have been put down by the rich-this is hatred speech. Some blacks and whites have rose to monetary status because they did not believe they were to be kept by the government, but that they could, with the will of GOD and their own hard work, succeed! He talked of lines in the emergency rooms of hospitals of people without insurance. They don't have it because they won't pay for it! Not because it isn't available! He brings up Dr King, well, to borrow from someone else, BHO you are no MLK! And what did the ASHLEY story have to do with anything. 14 years ago, let's see, Bill Clinton in WH. Poor Ashley's mother had cancer[I'm sorry for her and her family], and he says she lost her job because she missed work and lost her health care. Well if she had health care, it would continue under Cobra for a certain period of time. Ashley ate relish and mustard sandwiches. Did not any church know of Ashley and her mom's fate. My church helps those in need. It's supposed to be a story to inspire, but I read a sign recently that said, "Aspire to inspire before you expire!". Good words to go by. The Ashley story has too many missing components. I've love to know more, know why no one helped in her neighborhood, church, etc. To finish his story he says the elderly black man says only "I'm here because of Ashley", but never really explains it-was it because she went to his home and said come out, or was it because she related the story to him, or just what? The speech was void of any real substance. Lost in it all was his use of the church to talk politics-thought DIMs wanted no "church and state"! He constantly threw in GIVEAWAY programs while saying welfare state has harmed us-total contradiction in own statements. If Rev Wright's statements weren't so bad, why did the website of the church take off some of their mission statement, etc.-again total contradiction. He stated all churches get into talk like this-never been to a church in my life that does and if they did I'd leave! Says he could have just moved on and not addressed this-he knew that was politicial suicide-again total contradiction. He says stagnant wages-where, didn't we increase minimum wage, because of unions, etc, people get raises every year. He says jobs shipped overseas, well how about the reason why-UNIONS. Didn't talk about overseas jobs that come here-take Toyota, & others for example-total contradiction. He spewed hate talk himself about conservatives and Reagan Coalition, etc.-total contradiction to his supposed message. Why say "a candidacy as imperfect as my own." Looking for sympathy vote! Then again went in bad welfare state then straight into govt giveaway programs-total contradiction. Said Rev Wright had CONSERVATIVE ideas-wow, where did that come from-TOTAL CONTRADICTION! When he said "We have a choice in this country", he went into listing OJ trail, Katarina, etc., all statements to inflame, racial statements-total contradiction to his message! He spoke of shuttered businesses-but failed to note reason they're shuttered is because they did not keep up with technology, not becuase of anything bad-TOTAL CONTRADICTION. He talked of HOMES taken away-they were taken away because the people tried to live over theimeans!-total contradiction. His perfecting the USA statement lost the fact that we will not be perfected till we put the past behind us, learn from it and go on-the Old Testament is history, we learn from it-the NEW TESTAMENT gave us JESUS CHRIST and how to live. He ended on some story that had no beginning and no end-no story. And never a GOD BLESS AMERICA! That's one man's opinion!
Shocked at Overt Racism in Black Churches
March 20, 2008 - 09:42 ET by pearl<blockquote>An important aspect of the problem is that white Americans are incredibly ignorant about black churches in America</blockquote>
This is the blockbuster that everyone is missing.
White folks have moved beyond race and they are stunned and shocked to see overt racism being preached in black churches. Not to mention it's being rationalized by talking heads every hour on cable.
This may be the beginning of the end of white guilt.
whites surprised - blacks rising up in hate
March 20, 2008 - 10:27 ET by SouthJersey1953I agree. It is amazing that Rev Wright's church is not 'that radical'
I was shocked that there was that much hatred in the black churches and now we are being told that this church is not the worst? How can it get any worse????
If the blacks can be this 'openly' bigoted and we are expected to accept it, then I agree with pearl: "This may be the beginning of the end of white guilt."
DO NOT BE SHOCKED pearl
March 20, 2008 - 11:10 ET by cvgbuckeyeNow comes what NO ONE is going to want to hear. I wish it were not true but I fear that it is.
1. The statements that Rev Wright's church is typical (and even mild) as compared to other black churches in the country today is an understatement.
2. The hatred towards America and white people in general is spewed from the pulpits regularly on Sundays (the Lords Day).
3. For generations, young black people have been indoctrinated with this hate.
4. As you have noticed, scores of black ministers and church members drop into a kind of secret society crouch when questioned about their opinions of such. Few will take an unqualified position against this Black Liberation Theology which is code for an outright bigoted, Marxist approach to the world.
5. The fact that white people are shocked by all of this, as though it all started last week, is part of the problem.
6. The fact that the liberals and the media are acting like it is WONDERFUL is a bigger part of the problem.
Quite frankly, and here comes the big bomb. If we were all to awaken in the morning and the proponents of BLT were to have taken power in the country overnight, white people in this country would be quickly subjected to the kind of racial cleansing that would make our past slavery and the Holocaust look like a Sunday afternoon picnic.
I really regret that I believe the preceding but I am afraid that the Barack Obama experience is jerking this nation into a stark reality that justifiably has it totally frightened.
So what is the solution? Well, firstly, one needs to define the problem. I am not willing to call it institutionalized racism although I believe that all Americans need to now admit that it exists, not only in the minds of white people but equally in black people as well.
If you don't believe that, as you spend your normal day today, just observe the "Natural Separatism" that exists in every aspect of life, marriage, dating, CHURCHES, lunching, where we live and where we play. Watch it play out on TV.
What is the short, medium and long term solution? I don't know,,,,,BUT before we can begin to solve the problem that threatens to destroy us,,,,, we must define it.
these "Christians" are akin
March 20, 2008 - 11:26 ET by TruthMongerthese "Christians" are akin to al queda "Islamic" fasciasts...
both in the severe minority, both give their faiths a bad name, and both preach American hate
very telling how Time and the rest of the MSM happily cover for both groups
kindred spirits
But alas TM, the truth has been exposed...
March 20, 2008 - 12:17 ET by vrwc13...BHO has unwittingly brought to "Light" the "Dark" going-ons in some of our "christian" churches!
Now what has been going on "under the radar" is exposed for what it is, fake christianity.
Ah the Holy Spirit works in many ways, using many people to accomplish His work!
False teachers, false teaching, all of which Jesus warned us about.
19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." John 3:19-21
v
He reveals the deep things of darkness
and brings deep shadows into the light. Job 12:22
another thing Jesus warned
March 20, 2008 - 13:03 ET by TruthMongeranother thing Jesus warned us about - be careful how we judge, for we are judged the same way
get the log out of our own eyes first, before the speck in our neighbors
we all have some stuff under the radar
Truthie, fact is "Rev." Wright is headed straight to hell.
March 20, 2008 - 13:54 ET by R D HelmAs is Obama, his wife, and every member of that heretical church.
Anyone in a position of authority in the church who perverts and twists the Word of God the way this man has, is not of God. You, of all people, should know that. For those in authority who mislead their church and cause them to go astray, as Wright has done here, for them, the punishment will be the severest of all.
This man preaches pure hatred, and has aligned himself with the enemies of God's chosen people, the Jews (and yes, I'm referring directly to Islamists here, as they are the largest enemy faced by the Jewish people).
Have you ever read the areas of the Bible that deal with what will happen to all enemies of the Jewish people?
I'll give you a hint here-Heaven is not in their future.
Of course, there is still time for "Rev." Wright to get right with God.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
just be humble
March 20, 2008 - 15:31 ET by TruthMongerjust be humble about rebuking others - you and I are no less sinful than Rev. Wright in God's eyes
»→ You're Right Truthmonger
March 20, 2008 - 15:38 ET by Cool ArrowI humbly rebuke those bigots Barack Obama and Rev. Wright for practicing their hatred in the House of God.
♣ a seal
'pastor' Wright is not a Christian...
March 20, 2008 - 13:49 ET by vrwc13...it's time to call a goat a goat. (Matthew 25:31-46)
...and before anyone gets in a huff about "not judging", forget it. Christians are commanded to 'judge' their own. It's the 'outsiders' we are not to judge, because God already has.
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian who is sexually immoral, or greedy, or an idolater, or verbally abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Are you not to judge those inside? But God will judge those outside. Remove the evil person from among you. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13
...as for Wright, pray for him.
v
but OBL is certainly Muslim
March 20, 2008 - 15:29 ET by TruthMongerbut OBL is certainly Muslim of course:)
vrwc: Well done. It's
March 20, 2008 - 15:44 ET by QueenMumvrwc: Well done. It's tedious to continually have to point out to the moral equivalency crowd that defining sinful behavior does not violate the tenets of Christianity. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of the Ten Commandments - which Jesus did affirm.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
oh yeah
March 20, 2008 - 13:39 ET by katleeI really see how 'white folks' have moved beyond race
katlee... Reverse
March 20, 2008 - 13:50 ET by bigtimerkatlee...
Reverse that.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide"
May I ask if your pastor
March 20, 2008 - 15:13 ET by dscottMay I ask if your pastor talks like Rev Wright? Give us a basis for comparison and understanding.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
katlee: Many of
March 20, 2008 - 15:58 ET by QueenMumkatlee: Many of the "white folks" I know try very hard to overcome their prejudices. They're acutely aware of talk or behavior that may be misconstrued or misunderstood. They walk on eggshells when around their black brothers and sisters - not because they don't trust them or not want to associate with them, but because they truly want all the race nonsense to end. Perhaps sometimes they even appear to be condescending in their efforts to exhibit fair and equal treatment of others. Is it wrong to try their best in the context of their understanding of what blacks perceive as racist? What does it take?
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
No, they want us to walk
March 20, 2008 - 16:35 ET by dscottNo, they want us to walk around on tip toes so as not to break the eggs shells they have deliberately laid on the floor. Victimization is a power trip to justify indefensible actions on their own part. Thus the Rev. Wright goes unchallenged by liberals when he says racist things. It looks like to me that the libs have choosen which class is the more victimized, they choose Blacks over Women.
Sucks to be you Hillary, I guess you now will be forced to play the super delegate trump card.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
This may be the beginning
March 20, 2008 - 11:24 ET by MrShyThis may be the beginning of the end of white guilt.
Pearl..... Perfecto!
Man, I am hoping this opens the door NOT to many people's idea of "dialogue" but to people really moving forward, and saying enough of this crap and blacks start taking stock in themselves... taking some personal responsibility.
* * * SOCKS THE CAT '08 * * *
For REAL Change
Looks like to me that the
March 20, 2008 - 09:49 ET by obxrayLooks like to me that the real race problems are coming from black churches and the preachers are the grand wizards.Excusses.Let the truth be known.
Stengell is a scary person
March 20, 2008 - 09:53 ET by Mica the MagnificentI mean, I just, you know, a church in some ways to me, it's like a buffet.
Sure. A little HIV conspiracy here, a little hate whitey there . . .
Next thing you know, you have a sermon.
I want the MSM to shove a microphone into the face of any member of the 'Congressional Black Caucus' and insist on an answer to this question.
"What part of the HIV conspiracy did you part-take in?'
As a member of congress, surely if there was such a conspiracy to infect black people with the virus, they must have known about it!
Somebody! Do your job!
This is too rich!!!
March 20, 2008 - 09:57 ET by c5thenWe are now being lectured by atheists on how people "ought to pick and choose the messages from their church that they like and leave the rest alone". It's no wonder that these MSM idiots can't understand the religeous in their midst.
It's supposed to be OK because there are more radical black churches that he could have belonged to? Using this logic, Osama Bin Laden is not so bad because there are more radical Islamists in the world.
What I'm getting from the MSM appologists is that white racism is bad but black racism is OK and understandible. If anyone has a problem with black racism, it's because they are racist and are too small minded to understand why certain blacks have every right to be racist.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
If anyone has a problem
March 20, 2008 - 13:35 ET by maggieqpublicIf anyone has a problem with black racism, it's because they are racist and are too small minded to understand why certain blacks have every right to be racist.
Yessir. And that rationalized position has been taught at American universities since a few black leaders abandoned MLK’s non-violence and formed hate-filled, anti-semitic, violent black nationalist groups.
I'm reminded of a recent Ann Coulter article...
March 20, 2008 - 15:14 ET by Wilbur747that addresses the "black experience".
"We treat blacks like children, constantly talking about their temper tantrums right in front of them with airy phrases about black anger. I will not pat blacks on the head and say, "Isn't that cute?" As a post-racial American, I do not believe "the legacy of slavery" gives black people the right to be permanently ill-mannered."
Since a huge (and ever increasing) number of black people today never saw a "Whites Only" sign, I think they need to take responsibility for their own lives regardless of race or ethnicity, stop listening to these old geiser hate mongers, stop dwelling on slavery, decide for themselves if they truly feel oppressed, and think about the good things that are now happening in their lives, not what happened three decades or centuries ago.
It's time for blacks to move on with the future and make a better life for themselves. Just as members of other races oppressed and not oppressed have done.
Time Ain't What it Used to Be
March 20, 2008 - 09:58 ET by d1carterWhat incredible ignorance on the part of Rick Stengell and his MSM comrades. They still think that Americans listen to what they say and write. Maybe "back in those days" but no more.
Anyone who in any way
March 20, 2008 - 10:12 ET by mattmAnyone who in any way justifies Wright or any other race-mongering psuedo-preacher is adding to the problem.
" Asked why he didn't denounce the controversial comment...
March 20, 2008 - 10:33 ET by vrwc13" Asked why he didn't denounce the controversial comment when he first heard of them more than a year ago, Obama noted Wright was on the verge of retirement.
"I told him that I profoundly disagreed with his positions. As I said before, he was on, at that stage, on the verge of retirement. ... You make decisions about these issues. And my belief was that given that he was about to retire, that for me to make a political statement respecting my church at that time wasn't necessary." " - CNN
BHO's "professed faith" teaches him that he should not even "do lunch" with Wright:
"But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian who is... verbally abusive... Do not even eat with such a person. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Are you not to judge those inside? But God will judge those outside. Remove the evil person from among you." 1 Corinthians 5:11-13
v
btw: No need for alarm; pastor' Jeremiah Wright is not a Christian... - v
http://newsbusters.o...
Nice biblical passage;
March 20, 2008 - 13:36 ET by lotrNice biblical passage; here's another (appropriate for Holy Thursday)...
A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising. The crowd came up and asked Pilate to do for them what he usually did. "Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?" asked Pilate, knowing it was out of envy that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him. But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead. "What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?" Pilate asked them. "Crucify him!" they shouted.
-- Mark 15:7-13
Stengal is the last person
March 20, 2008 - 10:15 ET by ConservativeRexStengal is the last person who ought to be lecturing anyone on the value of any church. Stengal represents the people that HATE Christians.
What I am hearing here is white folk like Stengal think they know what black folk think, he's never lived around black folk, probably has had only a little interaction with black folk.
If he had, he would know that black men in their late fifties on up, absolutely do not like white folk. So what "Rev" Wright is saying is not surprising to the people that know. But what Wright is doing is infecting a younger generation with all of his prejudices. He sees racism where there isn't any, and has to invent it. There's no excuse for Obama to be a part of this garbage, if he has the brains everyone says he has he should have known this was gong to bite him in the ass. The majority of the country has moved on in race relations, just like we were preached to do for the last 40 years. Except preachers like Wright, they are stuck, and should have been left in the tar pits of life years ago.
Someone needs to ask Obama how he feels now about throwing Trent Lott's career out when he commented on ol' Strom. I don't give a crap for that rino Lott, but Obama said.."I just can't tolerate anyone saying what Mr. Lott has said"...I'll be damned, I guess THOSE chickens have come home to roost..
Excellent comments made
March 20, 2008 - 10:18 ET by marpelExcellent comments made here. And thanks to Mark for pointing out this particular portion of the appearance of this patronizing SOB. This is the very first thing I heard when I woke up this a.m. So nice to hear such an insult first thing in the morning....NOT.
Even though the MSM is launching an all out effort to re-elevate Obama to the position of sitting at the right hand of God, the American people are just too smart for this. It's showing in the polls BIG TIME. :O)
As a "white" American ...
March 20, 2008 - 10:27 ET by drillanwrI am a might damn sick of being told I'm "ignorant" ...
1) If what is going on in Rev. Wright's church pales in comparison to other [black] churches in America ... I say this is as unacceptable as Islamic madrasa or mosques spewing this level of divisiveness and racial hate. It would NOT be accepted for white churches ... nor should it be. These types of "churches" cross the line from religious to political ... and all the while, in this case, breaking the 3rd. Commandment: using/taking the Lord's name in vain. That Commandment is wrongly limited to being interpreted as "cursing" (which Rev. Wright ALSO did ...) No, it's also the use of The Lord in any context that suits one's political / criminal / wrongful purpose.
2) IF you are going to insist "white" America is "ignorant" of black churches ... and we are NOW expected to understand this level, and more, of divisive and anti-white speech is going on inside the walls of those churches ... what are you suggesting? That white America attend these churches? For what? Understanding? Unity? Togetherness? Or for degridation, condemnation, humiliation for something the massive bulk of (today's) "white" America had NOTHING to do with?
3) As a "white" American I owe NOTHING to "black" Americans for what happened in the very distant past of this country's history ... and by that measure, "black" Americans today aren't owed anything more than I am owed. Yet, they have the [luxury] of affirmative action, first dibs on college funding (grants, etc.), in some cases extra "points" for being black when applying to certain colleges or jobs ... and not to mention the decades of welfare, food stamps and any number of "government" (see, 'bite out of MY pay check') assistance programs that enabled their poverty.
4) So, if people such as Stengell feel the need to label "white" Americans as "ignorant" in order to disqualify "white" American's opposing opinion(s) to what he has to say says MORE about his ignorance than it does "white" Americans.
5) I am so damn sick of these self-imposed "white-guilt-Christs" who take it upon themselves (to make themselves feel better) via self-flogging for the 'sins' of whites centuries and decades before he could commit any such perceived crimes himself !
6) And anyone who insists this crap has "opened racial dialog" in this country is just a pandering sh*t-head ... This isn't "dialog" ... It's nose-rubbing in somebody else's over-aged mess ... and I ain't having any. I am soooo sick of this.
When you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows she’s dating a pussy… ~ Attributed to General Tommy Franks
tell us how you REALLY feel
March 20, 2008 - 10:33 ET by SouthJersey1953drillanwr, I couldn't agree with you more......but try not to hold back your feelings!!! LOL
Sorry, drillanwr
March 20, 2008 - 10:35 ET by Mica the MagnificentI'm sorry, drillanwr, I wasn't paying attention. Could you repeat yourself?
(Just kidding - I absolutely agree! Great post.)
RIGHT ON drillanwr!!!!
March 20, 2008 - 10:36 ET by obxrayRIGHT ON drillanwr!!!!
Excellent post, Drill!!
March 20, 2008 - 10:44 ET by marpelExcellent post, Drill!!
One aspect of the
March 20, 2008 - 11:03 ET by QueenMumOne aspect of the controversy that I've not yet heard discussed is how Rev. Wrong can call himself a reverend of any sort. I understand his angst, given the generation in which he grew up. What I don't understand is how someone, who is supposedly a pillar of the church which bears the name of Christ, is unable to find any forgiveness in his heart. It's not an easy thing for the best of us to forgive. But I expect a bit more from a minister. If Rev. Wrong introduced Obama to "Jesus Christ", I believe that Obama may have been duped into accepting a Jesus wannabe.
I am Queen Mum and I approved this message.
QueenMum -
March 20, 2008 - 11:25 ET by drillanwrTHAT is an excellent Point # 7 ...
Thank you for making it.
These people (and by THAT I mean blacks and white-guilt-Christs) want racial dialog? Fine. Good. Have at it ... But I will NOT have it one-sided where I (we) am expected to just sit there as I am smacked about the head with the rolled-up guilt of someone else ... and NOT be expected (or permitted) to have anything contrary to say about it ... especially without having the race card thrown in my face in hopes of taking out one of MY eyes ... when these people (see above) have the whole friggin' deck jammed in theirs.
Step off and talk to the hand ... or reach out and shake my hand and just try to approach this subject with me in an intelligent context of where I stand (racially) and without handicapping me as "ignorant" and responsible for the misdeads and sins of generations before my non-immaculate conception or responsible adulthood. Calling ME ignorant IS ignorant ... as since the late 1960s "education" and "American history" has done little BUT revolve around the days of black slavery and civil rights in this country/society.
When you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows she’s dating a pussy… ~ Attributed to General Tommy Franks
Queen... ...and they have
March 20, 2008 - 13:55 ET by bigtimerQueen...
...and they have the audicity to honor this so-called hate preach Rev. Wrong today.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide"
100%
March 20, 2008 - 11:12 ET by NavyBuckeyeRight on the head. You couldn't have said it better. I am young in comparison to some on here I believe(29 years young) and I feel my generation has been holding this type of thought back for a while now. I am sick of this race baiting bs. I don't take it and I teach my kids not to take it. Hopefully in the years to come the race baiters will see tht it doesn't work anymore.
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter” - Thomas Jefferson
Amen!!
March 20, 2008 - 12:12 ET by kdizzydazeI had to pile on with everyone else who replied
You are spot on with your comments.
Item #1 hit the nail on the head.
drill, excellent post.
March 20, 2008 - 13:32 ET by R D HelmAnd thank you, too, because you just saved me thirty minutes of furious typing.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
Belive this at your own peril
March 20, 2008 - 10:30 ET by ChasvsBlacks aren't RACIST and Islam is a Religion of PEACE!
It's just ignorant Whites who would think such things!
Iranian Maddens
March 20, 2008 - 10:30 ET by KC MulvilleThe lengths to which these apologizers will go to deflect criticism … why can’t they simply admit that Obama blew this one?
Watching this particular crew debate the meaning of Obama’s speech is equivalent to watching Iranians discuss the Super Bowl. They think they know what they’re talking about, but they plainly don’t.
MSM and white guilt
March 20, 2008 - 12:31 ET by pocomocoStengel exemplifies the ‘white guilt’ that permeates the MSM as they continue to praise the black culture and show manifest disdain for their own white culture.
And why?
To paraphrase Jack Nicholson in A Few good Men, ‘the MSM want Obama in the presidency, the MSM need Obama in the presidency’.
Obama is the ‘Great White Hope’ of the MSM because he will finally vindicate their ‘white guilt’.
that white Americans are
March 20, 2008 - 10:47 ET by dscottthat white Americans are incredibly ignorant about black churches in America
So what you are saying here is "you", Rick Stengell, believe the majority of Black Churches are uttering racist hate speech? Wow, what an admission of your own racist beliefs!
No, Mr. Stengell, as an apologist for hate you have increased the racial divide in America, not helped it. All of these apologists have played right into the hands of the Clintons who started this race baiting for the 2008 election season in the first place. Bill and Hill must be smiling and licking their chops now at all the finger pointing. Get a bib for Hillary, she's drooling. They of course will swoop in to calm the masses with soothing words and more give away programs to demonstrate their lack of sincerity.
Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008 Long Live the Empire! Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.
wait..
March 20, 2008 - 10:49 ET by candanceWhat is this guy talking about he knows what goes on in black churches? How many black churches has he attended in the 12 months? Sounds to me like he's repeating something he heard somewhere else.
Westboro Baptist is officially off the hook and should never appear in the news again. Sure they say some hurtful things, but they have a great soup kitchen and they're not like the Klan so it's all good.
If people wonder how atrocities like the Holocaust come to be, it starts with apologists like this.
Want to do something
March 20, 2008 - 10:53 ET by bassndudeWant to do something positive for black americans? Get rid of the goverment hand out programs. Get rid of affirmative action. This will allow the black americans to go out and work for what they want. They will have more pride in themselves, more self esteem and a greater sense of accomplishment. They already go to the same schools. They learn the same things. Whats the problem here? The blacks dont really have a monopoly on discrimination. The American Indians are the ones with the real beef. Blacks and whites were killing indians, legally, for generations after the civil war.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
The MSM is showing their bigotry
March 20, 2008 - 11:26 ET by well99How many Black churches did they check to be able to label black churches the same as Wrights?When I was stationed at Carson I went with a friend to a church and didnt hear any of Wrights racist remarks.I would no more believe all white churches have Jim Jones wantabes preaching.All the MSM is doing is useing a broad brush to paint this picture.There will always be some extremist in the pulpit no matter what color or faith.Doesnt mean all should be judge because of a few bad apples.First cup of coffee spelling optional.
Basically
March 20, 2008 - 11:49 ET by drillanwrAny (Christian) church whose "religious leader" insists on raging this angrily or loudly or proudly and self-righteously from the pulpit granted to him/her, not only from G-d ... but from the people sitting before them, is completely contrary to Jesus Christ (and his disciples) whose teachings they are supposedly trying to spread.
I believe, and I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, one of the ONLY episodes in the New Testament of anger and yelling by Jesus was when He was defending the Sanctity and Holiness of the Temple (His Father's House) ... When confronting "sinners" He did so with understanding, calmness and forgiveness (for example: the adultress in the street about to be stoned, the Roman guard who begged for healing for his faithful 'slave' at home, the two murderers and thieves hanging beside Him as He died on the cross ...)
I'll NOT sit before another "imperfect" human and be screamed at for salvation or be judged ... which is why I quit going to Confession.
When you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows she’s dating a pussy… ~ Attributed to General Tommy Franks
Agree
March 20, 2008 - 14:26 ET by well99Church isnt suppose to be about politics.It is suppose to be about learning about God.
Where are all the liberal PC police?
March 20, 2008 - 11:43 ET by In_AweThe PC police have been amazingly quiet, don't you think? Young Republican clubs can't even invite a conservative to speak on campus without demonstrations by liberal facists about the coming "hate speech". Callers to talk radio by definition spout hate speech, etc., etc.
Here all we have from Wright is REAL HATE SPEECH and you can hear the crickets chirping. Vile, unadulterated, racist, spittle flecked hate speech and it is OK?
Time--Fueling the racial fires
March 20, 2008 - 12:40 ET by iveseenitallAs this demonstrates, the "liberals" do not want to heal the racial divisions (or solve any other problem) in America. Most living white Americans today have done nothing to blacks. "Liberals" know it. Whites have watched what they say, they have looked the other way as as wrongs they wouldn't put up with in their own familes are ignored. They have swallowed being disriminated against themselves by Affirmative Action and other "programs". They have suffered the canard that criminals in prison are only there because they are black. They have suffered humiliation for the "racism" they know nothing about in their own lives. They have never owned a slave, nor has anyone in their family. These and more examples abound. Yet the left won't stop. Whites now resent it, alot. Enough is enough.White "guilt" exists only in the minds of the "liberals". They continue to stoke the coals of "racism" in America. But check the communist handbook; it's on their "to do" list.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Typical leftist spin from Time...
March 20, 2008 - 12:39 ET by PrairieSkyBut, I do agree with one point that Rick Stengell made. I think there is ignorance among most white Americans concerning what they think is going on in many black churches in America. Speaking for myself, I had always thought that churches and ministers like Trinity and Rev. Wright were examples of fringe thinking, and that most black churches don't adhere to such destructive, insane rhetoric. I hope that is still true, but now I'm not so sure. Do I think that there is still much resentment and bitterness in the black community concerning racial issues? Yes. But I hope that the extreme racist and "It's all America's fault" thinking is not representative of most black churches in this country. But as I said, based on the general lack of indignation about Wright's comments from many in the black community, I'm not so sure what to think, now.
Prairie
March 20, 2008 - 13:06 ET by iveseenitallWonder no more, Prairi Sky. As someone who spent a lifetime working with the "liberals", I know that every day, whenever the opportunity avails itself, they will bash "white" America. But you are right, most Americans haven't seen enough of it to truly understand the other side of "racism" in this country. The "schools" and the "churches", ironically, are bastions of ignorance on this matter. Many "preachers" and "teachers" encourage the hatred of "whitey" by both whites and blacks.
BTW, I think this is coming to "Atlas Shrugged". The real race problems have been exploited for the personal gain of a few. And people are beginning to see through this crap.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
re:iveseenitall
March 20, 2008 - 22:39 ET by PrairieSkyI hope you're right about people beginning to see through all this. But, even if eyes are beginning to open, I am afraid many, if not most, particularly in the white community, will shy away from any potentially confrontational discussion on racial issues for fear of being called a racist. Many walk on egg shells and talk around the subject, rather than engage in a real, truthful discussion. Until and unless this atmosphere of distrust and fear ends, I don't see an end to this whole, sad problem.
""So this isn't a radical
March 20, 2008 - 13:08 ET by suzycreamcheese""So this isn't a radical church, in context? There are more radical churches in Chicago?"
You know, I don't care about other radical black churches. Keep the subject on Obama's radical, Afrocentric church.
And I usually read Time magazine for free at my library when I'm on lunch break, just for a laugh to see how far they'll go to spin a story or picture. But I think I'm about to give this rag up for good. Free or not.
I am getting rather sick
March 20, 2008 - 13:11 ET by bigtimerI am getting rather sick and tired hearing from the losing leftist elitists that those like me out here in the real world have simpler, smaller, or ignorant minds...seems to me they are the critters with the real problem, just look at the latest poll numbers regarding Obama, NC where he was pulling quite ahead is now about even with Hill...
Lets see...people out here did listen, do understand what has been said and DO NOT like it one little bit.
What simplistic twits in the msm...they can't see what is right in front of their noses, just what they want to see...hope to see...and attempt to change right thinking peoples minds through guilt out here...well it is making us all the more angry with their obvious push for a guy that has serious problems...black nationalism being one of them.
Get a clue.
Right, BT.
March 20, 2008 - 14:01 ET by iveseenitallI listened to Obama, and I listened to Wright, and as most clear thinking Americans did , I made up my own mind. BTW,Wright has 4 university degrees, they say. So do I. But neither he, nor Obama, nor Time Magazine "liberals" can see the world clearly-- I can. I don't need my drgrees for that.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
In fact, Rev. Wright's
March 20, 2008 - 14:00 ET by RackieIn fact, Rev. Wright's church isn't that radical as black churches go.
Criminetley Batman!
"In fact, Rev. Wright's
March 20, 2008 - 16:50 ET by ckc1227edit
Read Ann Coulter's Article...
March 20, 2008 - 14:59 ET by Wilbur747about this subject. While Ann may turn some off, she hits the nail on the head about blacks getting a pass because of the past.
I've always felt that dwelling on past 'wrongs' only holds you back and keeps you from succeeding in life. One must LEARN from the past (both good and bad) and use these lessons to succeed without hurting others. My regards and thanks to World Net Daily.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=59377
Wilbur... Thank you for
March 20, 2008 - 15:07 ET by bigtimerWilbur...
Thank you for that link, I have part of it read, the rest I will get to in a few minutes....what I read though so far is right on...
I too have had my fill of all of this...way past my fill of it.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Me too BT...
March 20, 2008 - 15:59 ET by Wilbur747A really dear and long time freind of mine is black and both he and his wife are sick and tired of blacks:
1. Not referring to themselves as Americans.
2. Having people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton calling all the shots when it comes to the "black experience" and telling all blacks what to belive, how to vote and how to live.
3. Constantly relating ANY bad experience to "racism". By that he means that if a black person gets turned down for a credit card, or has to wait for a table at a restaruant, etc, it's because of not having a job or good credit, and that the restaraunt is full, not because they're black.
4. Having people telling them that because they're black, they need to vote for the Democrat they deem as best and if they don't then they're an 'Uncle Tom'.
5. Can NEVER succeed in education or business without the need for (racist) programs like Affirmative Action and government programs that cater mainly to blacks.
He pointed out that Affirmative Action and other government programs cater only to Latinos and blacks, not to people from Asian, the Middle East, etc.
If blacks can use the legacy of slavery to say, do, and get anything they want without discussion, then can I, being the descendant of grandparents who were held by the Nazis in Bergen-Belsen and Birkenau claim 'special priviledges' from Europe, Germany and the U.S. since they turned a blind eye when military officials were first told of Nazi etermination camps in 1943???
After all, the American "white government" NEVER engaged in genocide against blacks, but the Nazis did against gypsies, Jews, "Life Unworthy of Life" (the mentally retarded).
I've 'learned to learn' from the past and move on. I hold no animosity to Germans nor even an old neighbor who was a Luftwaffe pilot during WWll for what happend to my G-Parents.
But to listen to some black leaders, I should hate my old neighbor and demand reparations from him even tohough he's an old fighter pilot.
Sorry to rant, but the idea of special priviledges for blacks based on the past makes my blood boil...
Wilbur... Excellent
March 20, 2008 - 16:06 ET by bigtimerWilbur...
Excellent post...not a rant at all.
Those are just the real facts in the real world.
I too could post about some of the same sentiments you did, so I thank you for your rant...you said it all.
Btw...A.Coulter is and always has been one of my favorite gals fighting the good fight.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Thanks BT
March 20, 2008 - 16:56 ET by Wilbur747I'm so sick of this "We've been treated so bad from whites" crap. I know that slavery was wrong. That's why we as an intelligent society fought to erradicate it.
I know that blacks have been treated badly in the past. I do feel sorry for those that have suffered. That's we fought to erradicat those damned "Whites Only" signs. As you know, most Democrats voted against the Civil Right Amendment of 1964. It also wasn't just blacks that fought for equal treatment.
The bottom line is that I can't feel sorry for the wrongs against black when I can still see the number tatoo the Nazis put on my grandparents arms.
We all have our own stories to tell about discrimination. We must learn from failures and successes and move on to the future.
Bottom line is that I...along with many, many people don't give a rat's patuty about the color of one's skin. It's how you present yourself as a citizen, a neighbor and an American that counts.
Sorry again for the rant.
Wilbur: I'm reminded of my
March 20, 2008 - 16:09 ET by QueenMumWilbur: I'm reminded of my father-in-law who served in the Pacific Theater in WWII. He maintained a hatred for the Japanese for many years after the war was over. But eventually he came to terms with things, despite his Appalachian-American stubborness. (Note: The term "Appalachian-American" is one we use in lieu of the more familiar "hillbilly".) If someone can get past the horrors of that war within his lifetime, why does this black angst continue? Perhaps we just need one more generation past the turmoil of the 60's in order to move on.
I am the exotic Queen Mum, and I approved this message.
Even though my G-parents were held by the Nazis...
March 20, 2008 - 17:21 ET by Wilbur747I understand your F-in-law's feelings completely. I would have felt the same way.
As a student of military history and political science I have extensively studied Japanese Imperialism and how both sides conducted war both militarily and in 'civil' terms.
I must remember that my old neighbor was just a military man doing what he thought was his duty to protect his homeland just as my uncles did. He was NOT a Nazi. He didn't know what his leaders had done. When I talked to him about my G-Parents, he threw his medals in the trash in shame. This was wrong and I got them back. He served honorably in his military just as my uncles, father and I did.
I hold no hatred to him or his comerades for what happened to G-Pa/Ma. Yet we see Reverend Wright hating "white folk" 200 years after the fact.
We learn from our past and must use that knowledge for the betterment of mankind.
Please thank your Father in law for his service for me. He is truly a member of the Greatest Generation! I salute him!
BTW, since I was born and raised in Colorado, I'm a REAL hillbilly! When you've seen the Rockies, all other mountains are just bumps!!!
BTW...
March 20, 2008 - 15:54 ET by Wilbur747Ann could NEVER turn me off!!!!
"In fact, Rev.
March 20, 2008 - 16:50 ET by ckc1227"In fact, Rev. Wright's church isn't that radical as black churches go.
Criminetley Batman!"
I know, right? I hope they go with that defense. Whites can sleep
easier now with the revelation that hatred of whitey and America is
being preached in black churches all over the country. But don't
concern yourself with Obama's ties to a racist church. He gave a speech
on it, so everything is okay.
We have known all this for a long time, and in many ways..
March 20, 2008 - 18:25 ET by EvilCon555Yet political correctness has forced us to feel shame for thinking we were wrong.
My dad hid from the Germans with Jewish families in Amsterdam during WWII. He quietly was ashamed of his fear and hatred of the Nazi's. But never, EVER did he confuse a Nazi with a German. I am not sure how he did it...but he did. In his life here in the States his career partner was a German physician who was a Nazi Youth member. We enjoyed and valued the relationship with this man, and his family, but never forgot the possible tensions...it existed more so for my dad's colleague than for us. But again, even behind closed doors there was no hint of hatred, fear or revenge. Often though there was deep and unabiding sadness, relieved only by the love of family and the hope of America.
Why did they get along? Because my dad never confused the oppression of his war experience with the greatness of human compassion. Both doctors, they were influenced by their ordeals. Both are gone now, and our country could use their humanity. I am saddened by all of this.
We know there are African Americans out there who have the same sense of compassion that my dad had. More of them than not I am sure. And Mr Obama had his chance to reach out to those great, yet everyday, hard working Americans and ask for their help, their sense of humanity. Instead he threw his white grandmother to the wolves. He chose to side with the angry and wrong Rev Wright. And he thinks that because he is black (and not bi-racial) he has an automatic pass. No, sir, you do not. I am not afraid of being accused of being racist. I am not. I am afraid of the depth of division, already too deep, this man will bring to the highest office in the land simply because his ego entitles him to this opinion. I am afraid he will make being a coward the new hero in America. I am afraid he represents everything that is wrong with this melting pot of cultures and races. Remember...if the heat is turned up too high it is no longer a melting pot...it is a dangerous flaming mess.
"All great change in America begins at the dinner table" Ronald Reagan, Jan 21, 1981
Okay, Stengell ...
March 20, 2008 - 22:53 ET by drillanwrTell me I am an "ignorant white" American about THIS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTFLBNb6lQk
When you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows she’s dating a pussy… ~ Attributed to General Tommy Franks
Ignorance and the MSM
March 20, 2008 - 23:30 ET by koorangkoo"....white Americans are incredibly ignorant about black churches in America...."
The MSM is actually indicting itself with this inane excuse. Whose job is it to keep the public informed about what goes on in America and in black churches? How else can "white Americans" learn about what goes in a place they are hardly likely to venture themselves unless our MSM does stories on what goes on there?
Does anyone believe for a moment that if such racism and hatred had been displayed for years in a conservative church that the MSM would have been silent about it?
Three questions: (1) Did the MSM know about the racism and hatred that has been displayed in black churches for apparently a very long time? (2) If yes, why didn't they expose it? (3) If no, they are even more ignorant than us mere citizens, or, more likely, they kept the lid on the story because of their own bias and agenda. In their woeful attempt to spin, they are really indicting themselves.
Guilt? What guilt?
March 21, 2008 - 13:02 ET by jefflebowskiI do not care one little bit what some black leader, preacher, idiot, criminal, gang member, person calls me! Much like I don´t care what anyone of any race calls me. I know who I am and do not need acceptance from anyone else.
Until white people keep running from the R word, this BS will continue. If you want to call me a racist, ok. I prefer to call myself a realist...with my judgements and beliefs based on years and years of observation and experience!
Wake up whitey! Or you will be forced to live in fear of expressing your true feelings forever. As for Rev. Wright...he can go to hell!
Say it loud, I am racist and proud!!!