NBC Cheers John McCain 'Denouncing Torture' of Terror Detainees
On Thursday's NBC Nightly News, anchor Brian Williams incredulously noted how "...it's become fashionable among some to say...that so-called enhanced interrogation, what some define as torture...helped contribute to the death of bin Laden." He then touted: "Today Senator John McCain headed to the floor of the U.S. Senate to refute that."
In the clip that followed, McCain declared: "In my personal experience, the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence, but often produces bad intelligence. Because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear whether it is true or false." He then asserted: "The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee was obtained through standard non-coercive means."
That would seem to fly in the face of what CIA Director Leon Panetta told Williams in a May 3 interview. Williams asked: "Can you confirm that it was as a result of waterboarding that we learned what we needed to learn to go after bin Laden?" After some further prodding, Panetta admitted: "I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees."
Speaking to CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric the same day, Panetta acknowledged: "Obviously there was- there was some valuable information that was derived through those kinds of interrogations."
On Thursday, Williams seemed to forget all of that as he used McCain's words in an attempt to discredit proponents of enhanced interrogation.
Here is a full transcript of the May 12 segment:
7:08AM ET
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Since the death of bin Laden, it's become fashionable among some to say, in Washington and elsewhere, that so-called enhanced interrogation, what some define as torture, worked in this case, that it helped contribute to the death of bin Laden. Today Senator John McCain headed to the floor of the U.S. Senate to refute that. Of the 100 members of the U.S. Senate, McCain was the only one who was tortured, as a POW in Vietnam. Today he repeated his longstanding belief that torture is wrong.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Denouncing Torture]
JOHN MCCAIN: In my personal experience, the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence, but often produces bad intelligence. Because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear whether it is true or false, if he believes it will relieve his suffering.
I opposed waterboarding and similar so-called enhanced interrogation techniques before Osama bin Laden was brought to justice and I oppose them now. The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee was obtained through standard non-coercive means, not through any enhanced interrogation technique.
This is not about the terrorists, it's about us. But I dispute that it was right to use these methods, which I do not believe were in the best interest of justice or our security or the ideals that define us. And which we have sacrificed much to defend.
WILLIAMS: Arizona Republican Senator, Vietnam veteran John McCain in his own words, the floor of the Senate today.
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Comments
Conventional wisdom fact check needed
Submitted by Red Jeep on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 11:56am.
Concentional wisdom: "...Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times."
Supposedly this guy and one other were waterboarded over a 100 times. Opponents use this as an argument against "torture."
I don't buy it that we waterboarded people more than twice. It would seem after 1 waterboarding that more water boarding would become increasingly ineffective because the perp knows what's going down.
Does anyone know a way to check the validity of these claims?
number of times
Submitted by jon_torlin on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 1:37pm.
I thought it was just three times for the guy before he started talking.
Anyway, I don't understand why these opponents against these techniques can't understand that these people EXIST to DESTROY us simply because we're infidels.
The Chairman on the other hand is not an infidel, and has no problem with making things difficult for us as a country and our military and our intelligence gathering groups.
-Jon
He was waterboarded on three occasions
Submitted by Rover on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 2:34pm.
The story is that KSM was waterboarded on THREE occasions, during which 183 pitchers (or whatever one dose consisted of) of water were poured over him.
It's become popular with the left to sensationalize what was done to him by using the "waterboarded 183 times" factoid. That implies that they were at him for months. Total spin control, disingenuous but not factually inaccurate absent a definition of what constitutes one waterboarding.
Interesting that McCain appears to have joined those left-wing forces in trying to mislead the American people about the facts of the case. I knew he was left-leaning, but didn't see him as part of that "hate America first" crowd. This might have more to do with is personal experiences as a PoW.
Thanx for the info.
Submitted by Red Jeep on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 10:37pm.
I thought someone was lying
No Mr. Williams, your
Submitted by dscott on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 12:32pm.
No Mr. Williams, your opposition to water boarding as an interrogation technique all but condemned OBL to death. The only value in OBL's continued existence was the information he possessed and you destroyed that value since there was no way he was going to give up that info under conventional means. Had you liberals considered the bigger picture, OBL would be alive today and in custody. Why should anyone take the risk of capturing OBL IF there is no value in his life?
I find it amazing that you liberals are so willing to ascribe the credit for OBL's death to Obama when you all claimed to be anti-war, i.e. the proposition that all disputes can be settled without the use of force which results in killing people. But then since Obama has been so quick to use drones to kill terrorists in the M.E. that tells me you only object to killing people who oppose your rule.
What is good for our SEALs is good enough for....
Submitted by bfrank on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 12:59pm.
If waterboarding is good enough for our SOFs units for survival training, it is good enough for captive terrorists. It is not torture if you the only thing you lose is some pride and information. You still retain your health, five senses and may gain greater lung capacity.
From one Viet Nam veteran..
Submitted by almostacowboy on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 12:59pm.
to another:
Sen. McCain, thank you for your service but I reject your argument that if we treat prisoners well, when our soldiers are captured they will be treated well. That's hogwash, sir. The only time any U.S. soldier was treated anything close to "well" was by (insert drumroll here) the Nazis. Imagine that. All U.S. POW's were mistreated viciously by all (as in "by every one") of their captors. Consider whom we go to war with, sir. The United States does not wage war with honorable men.
I bet if we went to war again with Britain it would be proper.
Submitted by Red Jeep on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 1:08pm.
Every rule followed. Tea at 3. Comfortable prisoner accommodations with visitation. Very proper.
A McCain in the neck.
Submitted by Jack Bauer on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 1:01pm.
The problem with one person's "experience" is that it is just that.
A self-selecting poll of ONE.
John McCain's experience of torture was not to elicit information.
Nor was their any end in sight. The NV did it because they could, it was to humiliate the enemy. Or to get them to "confess." I believe many US servicement did just that -- so I guess "their"! experience differs from McCain?
So he cannot really speak to the use of "enhanced interrogation" to elicit specific information.
Besides THE FACTS disprove McCain's experience as it has already beenj admitted that the op was successful mainly in part to Gitmo.
All of the above Mr Obama? --- How about ALL OF THE BELOW, instead.
I'm so sick of this
Submitted by DaChew on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 1:35pm.
"The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times."
I'm so sick of this. The trail to bin Laden didn't begin with any single disclosure from any single detainee. Nor is any single President responsible for bin Laden's discovery and liquidation. The trail to bin Laden started over 20 years ago when he formed Al Qada and caught the attention of our intelligence services - probably under President G.H.W. Bush. And it continued under Clinton and G.W. Bush and Obama. ALL of the intelligence used to find bin Laden was built on the previous two decades of intelligence work. That includes material developed under Obama and, YES, intelligence derived from enhanced interrogation techniques under Bush AND Clinton AND H.W. Bush. To suggest otherwise is both dishonest and disrespectful of the work of untold numbers of intelligence workers.
If you want to argue about the morality of "enhanced interrogation techniques" then just do it. Intelligence information WAS gained through those techniques, that is a fact. Whether or not that intelligence was indispensible in the hunt for bin Laden is not knowable. We have no idea whether we could have gained the same result through other means - we only know what was, not what could have been.
McCain knows torture....
Submitted by MidAmerica on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 1:37pm.
but I doubt seriously that we have been engaged in anything even remotely resembling what McCain experienced in North Viet Nam.
In my lifetime I have done jobs that if the same conditions (high heat, hard physical labor, dirty, loud noises, oppressive supervisors, dangerous machinery) were used on prisoners it would be considered torture.
Where has John McCain led us?
Submitted by Thalpy on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 6:15pm.
John McCain and "leaders" like him have led us to ruin. How many more times must he demonstrate his weakness? John McCain is not a leader and we must never look to him for leadership again. Never-ever.
I was amused to read this
Submitted by Reaver on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 6:45pm.
I was amused to read this because I just happened to be flipping channels on my TV last night and caught Williams just as he said “Since the death of bin Laden, it's become fashionable among some to say,” I rolled my eyes and thought to myself “fashionable”? If Williams is denigrating the opinion of “some” in his opening sentence he must be talking about conservatives and kept flipping. I now see that I was right and it was even the beginning of a story that made it to NB. Thank you Newsbusters for teaching me enough newspeak to see that one coming.
Several Thoughts
Submitted by IdahoJim on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 7:23pm.
McCain, being a Senator, is not a leader in any way shape or form. His sole job is to represent the people in his state. And he can't make laws without the consent of a majority of Senators and Congress Critters. Even then he needs the signature of the government's CEO.
The one thing that really angered me during the Pelosi reign of terror was how the congress peoples forgot all about representing their constituents and instead chose to follow Nancy's orders. Of course she had a big club; campaign dollars to pass out to the obedient.
I always thought of torture as the infliction of pain via physical damage to gain information. Enhanced interrogation is more like the infliction of fear and anxiety. I will bet that if we got these prisoners drunk and they talked the ACLU would still call it torture.
IdahoJim
http://idahoandy.net
Of course McCain was a leader.
Submitted by Thalpy on Fri, 05/13/2011 - 9:38pm.
His sole job is to be what he is: a United States Senator, not an Arizona Senator. As a United States Senator he led the Republican party off the cliff in our last Presidential election. I simply don't want him leading the party in any way. I don't want him affecting our policy relative to torture. I want him to go away!