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Time's Sullivan Promotes 'Gay-affirming' Preacher Jay Bakker

By Ken Shepherd | March 15, 2011 | 12:14

A  A
Ken Shepherd's picture

Rebellious son of infamous 1980s televangelists returns (sort of) to the faith of his parents, pastors a church, but now takes a decidedly liberal tack on the Christian faith.

That's certainly a compelling story for a secular magazine to cover, especially in this Lenten season.

But with her March 15-published  interview with Jay Bakker, a self-styled "evangelical punk preacher," Time religion writer Amy Sullivan failed to critically evaluate Bakker's claims or present challenges to Bakker's theology from within the mainstream of orthodox Christian thought.

Indeed,Sullivan seems to sympathize with if not outright agree with Bakker's take on how Scripture can justify his stand on homosexuality (bolded sections are Sullivan's questions, unbolded are Bakker's responses):

Your book is about the concept of grace, something you say we hear and sing about but don't really understand. What's the difference between grace and love?


It's realizing that you're accepted completely. By God and by others. For me, grace gives me the ability to love people and love my enemies. Martin Luther King and Gandhi are people who really had grace. It gives us that ability to love beyond our comfort zone, which is something that's hard.

 

What you've described sounds straight out of the Gospel. And yet you say it's a controversial idea.


Yeah, it's funny because even before I became a gay-affirming pastor, I was getting in a lot of trouble at churches by preaching grace. We've made Christianity so much about morals and dos and don'ts. It takes away the power of guilting people and threatening them when you say, "The truth is, you're accepted just as you are." Christians are known more for what they're against than what they're for these days. So many pastors make religion about works and deeds and laws. That creates tension, but it also takes away the responsibility to go beyond just following rules. There's no consequence when I don't. But, of course, the consequence is the homeless person who continues to go hungry. Or the people who continue to die halfway around the world.

If God accepts sinners "just as [they] are" how does that square with biblical and traditional Christian teaching that followers of Christ are to forsake sins such as homosexuality in obedience to Christ as Lord and Savior? And just who are these pastors who "make religion about works and deeds and laws"? Considering Protestant Christianity thoroughly rejects the notion of works-based righteousness, it's a serious charge to level against other Protestant ministers. Yet Sullivan failed to ask these questions.   Instead the Time religion reporter prompted Bakker to flesh out how he sees conservative evangelicals who believe homosexuality is sinful to be the self-righteous elder brother in Jesus's parable of the prodigal son:
  The parable of the Prodigal Son is maybe the most famous Bible story about grace. Is the problem that too many people think they're the good son?

 

[Laughs.] I think we're really called to be the example of the father in the parable. He says, "You're both my sons," and calls them both back. That's a great example of grace, the idea of calling us all together. Unfortunately, we don't know if the oldest son ever comes in or not at the end of the story. We all have to be willing to sit down at the same table, even with people we may be tempted to believe don't deserve God's grace as much as we do.

Of course, in that parable, the younger son repented of his profligate and sinful lifestyle, sheepishly returning home to his father willing to work as a hired servant if his father would allow  it. The forgiving, lavishly gracious father is not a picture of acceptance of the son's sinful lifestyle, but a joyous celebration of his penitent, broken turn from his rebellious, sinful past.

With her next question, Sullivan practically cheered Bakker for his combat with conservative evangelicals on matters of biblical authority:

I love the phrase "clobber Scriptures" that you use to describe verses that get held up to condemn certain people or actions.

 

Those clobber Scriptures are the seven or eight verses people use to say that homosexuality is a sin. I feel they've been abused and people have purposely ignored the context of when they were written.

Sullivan did concede that "some Christians would say, 'We'll welcome gay and lesbians, but they have to go and sin no more. That's what Jesus would do.'

In answering that question,  Bakker argued that to do so would show that "you're not loving and accepting folks where they're at," yet Sullivan failed to press him on whether he thought Jesus was not "accepting" of sinners "where they're at" by telling them to forsake their sins.

There's only so much Christian critics, myself included, can expect of non-Christian reporters writing for secular organizations. But a softball interview like Sullivan's only serves to preach to the choir.

About the Author

Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters. Click here to follow Ken Shepherd on Twitter.
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Comments

→ Ravish the fatted calf?

Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 12:30pm.

And when the prodigal son came home, what did the father instruct should be done to the fatted calf?

OK, Baker may interpret "kill" as "ravish", but I'll just disagree.

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One of the millwrights that I

Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:20pm.

One of the millwrights that I worked around a lot was a member of the grand jury that looked into Jim and Tammy Bakker's dealing. He would meet once a month. They spent 18 month listening to testimony. They finally handed down the indictments. Jim took the blame even though Tammy was just as guilty as him,. It wasn't until after the trial that Reggie started talking. You wouldn't believe the things he told us. From what I can tell the boy, Jamie, was given what ever he wanted. He was not really a member of the inner circle of Jim, Tammy, and Tammy Faye. Jim Bakker did turn his life around. He started preaching against the prosperity doctrine that got them into the mess they were in. As for Jamie not having a mom or a dad around must have really screwed this kid up. Jim went to prison and Tammy run off with Rowe Messner shortly after Jim with in the pen.

If you would have lived in that area at the time it wouldn't have taken any testimony to see what was going on. My sister was a member of a Christian writers's group. When she would attend meetings many there were jealous that she lived so closed to Tammy and Jim. It was sickening the way people threw money at them

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Weren't there allegations that Jim Bakker had . . .

Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:42pm.

. . . some homosexual liaisons? I don't know if they were ever verified.

As for the Bakkers, they got what they had coming to them.  Jim Bakker knew -- as did Messner and the rest of the cartel -- that they were ripping off their supporters, who never believed that gentle people calling themselves Christians would exploit them.  The Bakkers pushed their fraud to the point where they could neither turn back nor conceal it anymore, and their ponzi scheme crashed down on their heads.

Unfortunately, a lot of honest citizens who trusted them lost their cash in Heritage USA.

Super-fraud Jimmy Swaggert fell about the same time.

 

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No, Jim Bakker was never

Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:50pm.

No, Jim Bakker was never accused of homosexual liaisons. However, he, his wife and his co-hosts and others placed in the origination were in the habit of having wild wife swapping parties and orgies laced with booze and drugs.

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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Actually Bakker was accused

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:06pm.

Actually Bakker has been accused multiple times of having homosexual liasons but nothing was ever proved publicly as far as I know. For example:

"Until last week, [Jerry] Falwell, a Fundamentalist Baptist from Lynchburg, Va., with his own TV-based spiritual empire, had been relatively reticent in detailing the sins of the Bakkers, who are Pentecostals. Obviously irked when Bakker leveled the charge during his first Nightline appearance, Falwell called a press conference that stretched over 90 minutes and even displaced the Iran- contra hearings on Cable News Network. Falwell fumed that Bakker "either has a terrible memory, or is very dishonest, or he is emotionally ill." He portrayed Bakker as a man consumed by avarice and said that he had documented evidence of homosexual misconduct by the fallen preacher." [Time Magazine, Richard N. Ostling, June 24, 2001 -- emphasis mine]

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That may be. I really don't

Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:10pm.

That may be. I really don't have any proof of that. However is was said that the sex parties were a common practice among the hosts and co-hosts and others at the studio. Even to the extent that they were conducted, sometimes, after their broadcasts at the studio. Now that's gutsy.

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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Gutsy or stupid? :-)

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:17pm.

Gutsy or stupid? :-)
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Sometimes its hard to tell

Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:22pm.

Sometimes its hard to tell the difference.

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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None of all that ever came

Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:37pm.

None of all that ever came out at trial. What you are talking about was spoken about by many of his staff. They had a big house on Lake Wylie. Their dog has an air conditioned dog house. There was the house in Palm Springs, the Bentley and so on. It was such a lavish lifestyle. This wasn't the way that I knew most preachers to live. I could see things were wrong and that people were being scammed.

Jim bought a yacht. He was going to put it at the house on the lake. Problem was it wouldn't go under the Hwy 49 bridge. He had the nerve to call Bill Lee who was the CEO of Duke Power and tell, tell mind, that Lee needed to get them to lower the level in the lake so the boat would go under. Bill Lee laughed at him. They wound up getting a crane to lift it from one side to the other. It is thinks like that that upset me. I would actually pray at night that God would expose the mess in Fort Mill as I referred to it. And He did.

I never could see why so many people were blinded by the Bakkers. He did a lot for me. I'd watch the program and hear something that didn't sound right so I'd hit the Bible to see what was said. 90% of the time they were twisting the scriptures to fix what they believed. It taught me that you read the facts, believe it by faith and then have the feelings.

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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In the hey-day of the televangelists, I used to . . .

Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:39pm.

. . . watch the Bakkers, Swaggert, Falwell, and Robertson to study their styles and determine what they were pitching beyond spiritual teachings.

For Falwell, it was raising money for Liberty College (later University) in Lynchburg, VA.

For Robertson, it was Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN) and CBN (later Regent) University in Virginia Beach, VA.

For Swaggert, it was his international ministries. 

But the Bakkers had a real estate deal going on. Called Heritage USA, it appeared for all intents and purposes to be a Christian time-share facility, with water park, entertainment, and all the other trappings.

They had different parts of the center (The Towers, etc.), each with so many rooms, and they would periodically announce the opening of a new part.

The Bakkers sold 'memberships' in these time-shares; the members didn't actually own part of the property, but were guaranteed a number of days/nights at the center. Sometimes they came on with the hard-sell, warning that "we only have 100 memberships for the Towers remaining, so join now," or words to that effect. When I got suspicious was when after closing out memberships to a new part, they would come on and say, "Great news! We suddenly discovered that we can sell 500 (or whatever number) of memberships in the Towers, so join now!"

Seeing as calculating the number of membership stays that can be honored in a facility with a fixed number of rooms is basics math, I suspected that they were having cash flow problems, and as it turned out, they did. In the affluence that they found themselves in, they squander membership fees on their decadent lifestyle, and soon didn't have the cash to pay for the construction.

So, they merely announced the opening of a "new' wing or part, and used the cash from the new memberships to pay for the construction of the older stuff.

And when that no longer worked, they sold more memberships.

It was a ponzi scheme. I believe a reporter from the Charlotte Observer won a Pulitzer Prize for exposing the enterprise.

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Heritage USA was a nice

Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:44pm.

Heritage USA was a nice place. They had a water park where kids from our church went. They had a passion play. The hotel was a 5 star. There was a great restaurant in it. There was no smoking on the grounds. There was a nice camp ground. The ponzi scheme is what got him. Falwell took over the place and tried to run it but it was just too far in debt. Somebody else bought and lost their butt on it. Here are some pictures of it today

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Took a gander

Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 4:12pm.

Oh my goodness, what a waste that ended up being.

That hotel could have been converted into a low rent apartment building or something.

Wow........what a huge waste.

-Jon

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I believe a commercial real estate speculator . . .

Submitted by Galvanic on Wed, 03/16/2011 - 9:55pm.

. . . bought it from PTL after the group headed by Falwell abandoned an attempt to save it and restore its solvency. I think Falwell and friends realized that the PTL hierarchy was so corrupt that there was nothing to work with.

When it was bought, Heritage USA members hoped that their investments would be honored, but it was clear that the new businessman was not interested in assuming all that liability. The members lost out.

Had the Bakkers and their gang of thieves kept their hands out of the till, it might well have survived as a family-oriented Christian resort/retreat center.

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I have determined that the

Submitted by Gothampc on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 12:38pm.

I have determined that the majority of "journalists" who talk about the Bible in the media have never studied it, much less read it. They ask questions that have no basis in the Christianity belief system. I will agree with Bakker that one of God's many facets is grace. But God doesn't expect anyone to stay the same as when He receives them. He expects people to make an effort to become more like Him. We are in a time of God's great mercy, but what God can't do through mercy, He will do through judgement.

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Bakker is a messenger of Satan

Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 12:49pm.

He says, "I think we're really called to be the example of the father in the parable." Yet the father in the parable is clearly representative of God the Father. So Bakker teaches we should want to "be as God", just like the serpent in Eden taught Eve to "be as God".

All we sinners should run from such "teaching".

And I've just about had it with so-called "religion reporters" in the lamestream media.

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

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This is typical

Submitted by Lord-come-soon-... on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 12:52pm.

of what is going on these days. Bakker sums it up perfectly when he talks about the verses in the Bible that CLEARLY say that Homosexuality is a sin. The liberal/christianity mindset is now "if you disagree with a verse, or it doesn't fit with your lifestyle, simply say that it's being taken out of context.". I'd really like to hear Bakker's "out of context" argument for 1 Corinthians 6:9. Typical of these charlatans, he wants to have editing authority for God's word. Sorry pal, it doesn't work that way.
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Here is your context.

Submitted by Wisdom on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 4:21pm.

Interestingly enough, just a few chapters later in 1 Corinthians 14:34, the Bible also CLEARLY says that women are not allowed to speak in church.

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church."

The problem with taking the Old Testament literally, is that if you want to use one passage as justification for "sin" & "immorality", then you have to follow all the other Old Testament passages also.

I don't see anyone upset that the media isn't interrogating these Pastors that allow women to speak in their church, which clearly goes against the Bible's teachings.

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Just so you'll know

Submitted by Lord-come-soon-... on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 5:00pm.

First Corinthians is in the New Testament. And many mainline Christian churches (Baptist, Calvary Chapel, etc.) do not allow women to preach during services. Women, of course, still play a prominent role in ministry and outreach. That's a far cry from accepting homosexual activity as normal and acceptable. Paul's goal in saying that was to maintain a sense of order in the post-resurrection church. A woman's role in Christianity is the same as a man's - to glorify God and share the gospel. They just have different roles and different venues.
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dd, is that you? [CARM]

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 4:54pm.

dd, is that you? [CARM]
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For all your Wisdom, your not

Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 4:59pm.

For all your Wisdom, your not very well versed in the Bible are you? Quoting from the New Testament and referring to the quote as if it came from the Old Testament is showing a distinct lack of Wisdom.

 

Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!

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Glad...

Submitted by adamsmith on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 12:53pm.

Glad I'm a Catholic. Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, with no room for Cult of Personality.....One of the oldest Christianities for good reason.....
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Big Surprise!

Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:04pm.

 

They fawn over a "Christian" preacher who thinks homosexuality is just fine.

<shocked face>

Really, Jay..loving them where they're at [sic]???


Jesus WAS loving them where they were. "But He was also encouraging  them to be be better!

According to your theory, Jesus should have said, "Don't worry about it; I want you to be happy," not "Go and sin no more."

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See my tag line. AW Tozer was

Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:08pm.

See my tag line. AW Tozer was a very wise man. He said it best in that line,

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Perfect

Submitted by Lord-come-soon-... on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:16pm.

excellent point
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Another liberal preacher

Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:30pm.

Another liberal preacher distorting Scripture to exempt specific sin. God is not pleased.
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And what I find really Ironic

Submitted by Lord-come-soon-... on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:54pm.

is the way he (and others like him) depict what they're doing as "cutting edge" and "risky". What they are actually doing is taking the easy way out, like cowards. What requires more character - surrendering to your sinful urges and just doing what pleases your flesh, or surrendering your will to God and striving to do what pleases Him. I am amazed at the audacity of these people who proclaim themselves so utterly brilliant that they can speak on behalf of God and tell us what God ACTUALLY meant to say.
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His last name and relations

Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 1:46pm.

All you gotta know is his last name and his relation to his father(of PTL fame) and you know he's bad news.

I don't know how many of you remember, but PTL which had a nickname called "Pay The Loot!"

This guy is as big a fraud as his father.  Beware false prophets.

-Jon

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Jon

Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:39pm.

That was Pass the Loot. It was started by Murphy in the Morning. John Boy and Billy had not gone national at that time picked up on it and keep it going. They were just a couple of clowns at, WRFY,  the Fox in Charlotte. Pass the Loot was one of their daily skits just like Parker Myers from Myers Park, a ritzy neighborhood in Charlotte. When Bakker was on trial he once tried to put his head under a couch to hide. John Boy and Billy took a couch to the courthouse lawn and had people try to put their heads under it. They did all kinds of stuff outside at the trial . It was a bigger circus than Ringling Bros.

One thing I forgot. Not only did Jim pitch the fit and delay the trial so do Hurricane Hugo.

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Tammy Faye

Submitted by Gothampc on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:21pm.

Don't forget his mother was addicted to drugs and had such self-image problems that she wouldn't even let her husband see her without makeup.

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There were a lot of t-shirts

Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 4:13pm.

There were a lot of t-shirts sold that had a backwards picture of Tammy has on it that said , I ran into Tammy Faye at the mall ? It was hilarious. 

We all said there was nothing wrong with putting a little paint on the barn but don't throw the whole bucket on it.

A well regulated militia being necessary to a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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Shirt

Submitted by Gothampc on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 4:29pm.

My best friend grew up in Charlotte. He had one of those shirts. He was supposed to get me one, but he never got around to buying me one. He got a lot of comments when he wore that t-shirt in public. On a positive note, even though Tammy Faye had a babyish speaking voice, she had a really strong singing voice.

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Hypocrite Alert!

Submitted by pilgrim4jc on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:22pm.

It is always interesting that those who preach only grace without accountability can never demonstrate grace to those that disagree with their opinions? If he was really a “grace filled” preacher he would denounce no one about anything, even those who believe homosexual acts are sinful! Just kind of interesting don’t you think?
You're not alone!
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LEARNED FROM HIS DADDY

Submitted by cbeyer on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 2:22pm.

Bakker Jr. saw how easily Christians could be dupped into parting with their money in the name of promoting a cult like version of Christianity. He is just following in the footsteps of his daddy. Also sounds like he has similiar sexual preferances as well. Jim Bakker's feet never touched the ground when he was doing his telecasts.
Chris H. Beyer Right of Way Pundit
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Unfortunately, you're probably right

Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 3:34pm.

And I'm sure that no matter how badly the PTL Club cult was hurt by the Bakkers' crimes, there exist a handful of them that will rally to Jr.
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I grew up around the corner from the Bakers

Submitted by mrwiffle on Tue, 03/15/2011 - 5:23pm.

I grew up in Portsmouth, Va. around the corner from Jim and Tammy Baker. When Jim Baker got caught playing with Jessica and was on his way to court, I called him and told him to "Confess" that he knew what he had done and was wrong. Instead, he assumed the fetal position in court...lied under oath, and went to prison. Where he asked me to give him my word of knowledge..."Confess and all will be forgiven"....later, he titled his book..." Guilty"...no kidding..really.. Tammy was crazy...I think Jim Baker was gay and only had the fling with Jessica...because he needed to reinforce his heterosexuality to his supporters....of whom I knew many that dedicated their donations to exclusively the PTL Club... I myself would give my left nut to live in their dog house...with the gold trim... Funny world, what goes around will come around...like father like son...
T.S.
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I could totally, completely,

Submitted by okie-pastor on Wed, 03/16/2011 - 1:37am.

I could totally, completely, thoroughly, absolutely blow his logic to smithereens but I have done so, so many times. It gets old. And I don't think anyone is listening. Oh well here goes just a 1/1000th of something that irks me about this (I could write books about what's wrong with his argument) The "clobber scriptures" ARE IN THE BIBLE. As a Christian you should believe ALL scriptures are inspired by God. Tell me what is being taken out of context in these scriptures: "man shall not lie with man as with woman: this is an Abomination" "No homosexual offender shall inherit the kingdom of God"- I Cor 6:9,10 "woe unto them who call good evil and evil good" Maybe God meant man shall not lie with man 100 years ago but not today. But wait! That's not in there! Unfortunately for perverts, the bible doesn't say that! I told our church that when I speak this truth I will be called "hater" "homophobe" "bigot" etc. But if this offends anyone take your argument up with God! I am honor bound to preach his word! As in the days of Noah so shall the coming of the son of man(Jesus) be! And as it was in Lots day: Sodom (filled with homosexual activity) was spared because there was still a few good people there but when they left judgment fell and they received the wrath of God "received the full recompense of their error". I believe God withholds judgment just for the sakes of a few Christians. But won't hold it for long. Sorry I'm a preacher. It's who I am! ( I could go on but I'm tired)
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The problem with too many

Submitted by redfish on Thu, 03/17/2011 - 2:23pm.

The problem with too many social conservatives on this subject is first, that they quote Biblical verses over appealing to rational argument, and second, they single out gay people, when Christian ethics has a problem with anyone, gay or straight, that has sexual relationships outside of traditional marriage. If you're having casual straight relationships thats no better or worse than having gay relationships.

By focusing on 'perverts' you're getting in the way of a discussion on how Christians view meaning in sexuality.

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I'm not a Christian, but how

Submitted by redfish on Thu, 03/17/2011 - 1:28am.

I'm not a Christian, but how I understand Grace is that its given to someone who has faith ; God gives it out freely, even if you've acted like a wretch, but you must accept him first in order to receive it from him. You need to have your hands open. Its the Christian equivalent of karma -- if you have the right values, good comes to you.

To 'fall from grace', as an expression, means to relapse into sin.

So saying 'everyone's accepted' is really besides the point. You still need faith.

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