MSNBC's Chris Matthews spent the first 15 minutes of the October 22 "Hardball" haranguing McCain advisor Nancy Pfotenhauer over vice presidential contender Gov. Sarah Palin's view of the role of the Vice President as President of the U.S. Senate. Matthews scoffed that Palin's answers contradict the Constitution, including her telling a 3rd grader today that the Vice President "runs the Senate" and "can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes."
But while Matthews was correct to argue that the majority leader is the real conductor of the legislative train in the upper chamber of the Congress, he was incorrect in insisting it is the Constitution which leaves the Vice President with no say in the daily affairs of the U.S. Senate other than casting tie-breaking votes.
As the U.S. Senate Web site makes clear, while the Constitution restricts the Vice President's votes to tie-breakers, in the earliest days of the Republic, Senate rules of order afforded the Vice President a greater role in the workings of the chamber as presiding officer than they do now. Indeed, at the time of its ratification, some critics worried the executive branch had too forceful a hand in the Senate's workings (emphases mine):
Story Continues Below Ad ↓Several framers ultimately refused to sign the Constitution, in part because they viewed the vice president's legislative role as a violation of the separation of powers doctrine. Elbridge Gerry, who would later serve as vice president, declared that the framers "might as well put the President himself as head of the legislature." Others thought the office unnecessary but agreed with Connecticut delegate Roger Sherman that "if the vice-President were not to be President of the Senate, he would be without employment, and some member [of the Senate, acting as presiding officer] must be deprived of his vote."
Under the original code of Senate rules, the presiding officer exercised great power over the conduct of the body's proceedings. Rule XVI provided that "every question of order shall be decided by the President [of the Senate], without debate; but if there be a doubt in his mind, he may call for a sense of the Senate." Thus, contrary to later practice, the presiding officer was the sole judge of proper procedure and his rulings could not be turned aside by the full Senate without his assent.
The first two vice presidents, Adams and Jefferson, did much to shape the nature of the office, setting precedents that were followed by others. During most of the nineteenth century, the degree of influence and the role played within the Senate depended chiefly on the personality and inclinations of the individual involved. Some had great parliamentary skill and presided well, while others found the task boring, were incapable of maintaining order, or chose to spend most of their time away from Washington, leaving the duty to a president pro tempore. Some made an effort to preside fairly, while others used their position to promote the political agenda of the administration.
During the twentieth century, the role of the vice president has evolved into more of an executive branch position. Now, the vice president is usually seen as an integral part of a president's administration and presides over the Senate only on ceremonial occasions or when a tie-breaking vote may be needed. Yet, even though the nature of the job has changed, it is still greatly affected by the personality and skills of the individual incumbent.
While Gov. Palin may very well find herself with little say in the Senate's business, it's not because the Constitution tells her to sit down and shut it, it's because the rules of the chamber have made it such that the presiding officer, be it the Vice President or a pro tempore officer, has little power in affecting the course or substance of floor debate.
—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters




















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Ch-ch-changes
October 22, 2008 - 16:53 ET by Indiana JoeModern VPs generally choose not to participate in the Senate, except when their vote is needed to break a tie. If Palin decides to be more active in the Senate, whether by simply presiding, or maybe by doing some lobbying, nothing in the Constitution forbids it.
As usual, Chrissy has no idea what he's talking about. He's less prepared to do his own show than Palin is to be VP.
"I do not... believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." G. Galilei
And...
October 22, 2008 - 17:06 ET by retroconThe Senate rules are parliamentary in nature. I would suggest that a strong VP could walk in and stir things up quite a bit.
Like it or not, the constitution says "President of the Senate."
Who better to change the rules than the "president" ;-)
And and...
October 22, 2008 - 17:07 ET by retroconwho better to stir up a chamber of stogie old men than Sarah
Great point
October 22, 2008 - 18:36 ET by Captain KirockI could see a VP whose party controls the Senate taking a very active role in pushing the administration's agenda, especially if that VP has aspirations for the Presidency.
This is all a tempest in a teapot. Where was Chrissy when Uncle Joe Biden made his debate gaffes about the office of the VP?
Palin could say the sky is blue, and MSNBC and Yahoo News would have a headline proclaiming her wrong, claiming the sky is more grey than blue.
President and Vice-President from Different Parties
October 22, 2008 - 17:26 ET by allanfIn the early days of the Republic, the President and Vice-President were often from different parties.
The Democrats thirst for knowledge is far less than their hubris.
»→ But Ken
October 22, 2008 - 17:46 ET by Cool ArrowI saw it. It was an obvious trap Pfotenhauer should have understood.
Tapioca-legs narrowly defined the question as "under the Constitution"
Enumerate what has been endowed since the Constitution's signing is all well and good, but she should have started with the original mandates underthe document.
Her answer, along with that perpetual grin, were incongruous given the skewering she was receiving..
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
I saw it too CA...and I
October 22, 2008 - 19:47 ET by bigtimerI saw it too CA...and I agree with your summation...all of it.
Btw..this is just my opinion, I would give anything if the repubs would quit giving msnbc the time of day...especially Matthews.
If they can't be prepared to tell him to cool his jets, quit interrupting, let me finish of at least state my point...and be well prepared...forget about it....Give 'em Hell Zell Miller said it all to Matthews long ago now...
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Speaking of
October 22, 2008 - 19:41 ET by bigtimerSpeaking of Matthews...Michelle Bachman was just on BOR fighting back against him...plus Pelosi who says she is going to be putting in another million to run against a great conservative like Bachmann...I also know Rahm Emanuel her number two POS is the guy she listens too and is really running the show...plus I heard from Matthews with glee on his show today the RNC are pulling their money from her for her ads for television...we need to show them all where we are in this country, we need strong people to speak out for the rest of us...and SUPPORT these people, or we will never win...we will just keeping RINOs in...instead of real fighters for us.
Go Michelle Go...anybody want to help her...go here...lets show Matthews to stick it where the sun doesn't shine!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Thank you!
October 22, 2008 - 20:19 ET by CaptainI actually emailed that website link to Hardball first thing this morning since I figured Chris should at least read up on history before he spouts nonsense. Chris is just swimming in it with his "facts" on this one. He's going with the whole "scream a lie enough times and maybe the truth will change".... Yawn.
Oh Ken, you've forgotten
October 22, 2008 - 20:29 ET by FastEdthat the law of the land is a "breathing" document. Soooo, thrill legs is probably right, 'cause who would want to follow what some guys wrote 2 hundred years ago??
Give the guy a break already - the medication takes time to work, and the first signal is the thrill in the legs.
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
I read Palin's answer and
October 23, 2008 - 10:47 ET by Dan The Man 2I read Palin's answer and thought it was appropriate for a third grader to hear. A third grader asks why the sky is blue and he doesnt want you to open up a college science text and give him the equations and theories taht support the hypothis hwy the sky is blue. He wants you to say the sky is blue due to particulates in teh sky like dust and pollution; and you can add it is not always blue.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.