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NBC-Owned History Channel to Air Leftist Howard Zinn's 'The People Speak'

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Editor's Note: The following was originally published December 1, 2009 at Big Hollywood, where Nolte is editor-in-chief.

Don’t believe for a second that the History Channel — which should now be called The Revisionist History Channel — will be the end of Matt Damon and Howard Zinn’s cinematic ode to trashing America. The obvious next step for the adaptation of Zinn’s “A People’s History of the United States,” will be taken up by nitwit, pseudo-intellectual, America-loathing teachers and professors everywhere – many of them paid by the taxpayers of GodDamnAmerica – who are no doubt panting in anticipation for their first chance to screen this toxic mix of guilt and victimization in classrooms everywhere stocked with young, captive, impressionable minds.

And the film’s producers are showing academia the way with “The People Speak College Tour,” which launched at Boston University November 4th and ends right here at UCLA this coming Friday [December 4].

Turning Zinn’s textbook poison into an even more powerful brew of sound and fury has been a goal of producer Damon’s for going on a decade now. When I first heard that this skewed, leftist dwelling on America’s sins (some real, most imagined, all delivered without historical context) had received the seal of approval from the History Channel it was a shocker – until I remembered the History Channel is owned by NBC – a network now working like a propaganda war machine to boost every leftist cause imaginable.

There’s an older preview here. Should be interesting to see if the now inconvenient history of Cindy Sheehan made the final cut.

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Oh, Matty.  Why do you

Oh, Matty.  Why do you have to work so hard in such a warped fashion to prove that you aren't just another dumb over-paid actor who feels guilty about it, but insists on taking it out on us? Don't take yourself so seriously - we sure don't.

The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.

Well put Chris...

I guess they have nothing else to do. It's amazing how most of them out there are similarly warped.

 

Best Tea Party sign ever!

http://bit.ly/82FRAB

I dropped Comcast when they

I dropped Comcast when they came out with the "Obama Channel".  It looks like the "History Channel" will join NBC and MSNBC in my "blocked" channels list. 

"DumbAssity of Dope"

Re Damon

Remember that in the otherwise fine movie Good Will Hunting, the Damon character quoted from Zinn's piece-of-crap. Damon and Affleck wrote the screenplay for the movie. Just another foolish Hollywood liberal.

All this hoopla makes me

All this hoopla makes me want to read the book. Reading reviews -- positive and negative -- gives you limited insight. 

Has anyone read it? Thoughts? 

Why don't you read the book

Why don't you read the book and post your own thoughts, instead of trolling? 

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

Figure out what trolling

Figure out what trolling actually means, OK? Would you do that?

I'm curious, and as I said, I'll probably read the book myself. But I was looking for comments from the more rational people on this board.

Having read People's

Having read People's History a few times in the past decade, perhaps I can add some perspective to the many posters here who have clearly not read it but know that any mention of Zinn's name is supposed to trigger the collective conservative gag reflex.

First off, Zinn is a bona fide historian.  He's learned and forgotten more American history than most of us could ever hope to know and has tenure at one of our premiere universities.  For those of you anti-academic types who think that's trivial, a challenge: spend the next 10 years of your life trying to get a tenure-track position in the humanities at a school of BU's caliber; even if you present yourself with a liberal bent that's left-of-Chomsky, it's an exceedingly difficult endeavor.  So yes, being a history professor is, in and of itself, an enormous credential.

Zinn is far more a legit historian than Ben Stein is an economist or biological anthropologist; far more than Palin is an authority on energy policy; far more than Beck is an authority on healthcare reform.  Yet, there is little in the way of accusations of charlatanism coming from the right when Stein decries "socialism" or bemoans the exclusion of creationists from established scientific methodology, or Palin says "Drill Baby Drill," or Beck talks about how Obama will personally execute your grandmother.  If you don't like Zinn's stance, fine.  But you are in no position to criticize an expert in American history before even reading his book. 

Interestingly, despite all this, one almost never hears criticism of Zinn's facts.  His book is over 600 pages, spans 4 centuries, and has something like 450 works cited; and I have yet to hear a credible critic attack him for getting his facts wrong.  What the right attacks is his tone, because they find it so offensive that he doesn't valorize every single thing America has done in its history.  Those who bother to read the book would realize that he is not the least bit anti-patriotic; what he is against is the negative effect of big government and unchecked capitalism.  While conservatives might take issue with the latter, I should think that the former, in many ways, fits right in with current right-wing ideologies.  As the title suggests, the book is history from the perspective of workers and basic citizens, rather than larger-than-life icons.  It's anti-elitism without the nauseatingly uninformed bent that certain current commentators bring to that very idea.

To continue on the anti-patriotic tack, let us not forget that Zinn is a WWII veteran who spent two years as a lieutenant and bombardier on a B-17, then attended college on the GI Bill.  Leave it to the hypocritical right to attack as "unpatriotic" a member of the "Greatest Generation" just because he doesn't precisely fit the Brokawian mold.  

Sorry, Jason, but I must

Sorry, Jason, but I must disagree.

Zinn's dopey screed was one of the few books in my life that I threw away in disgust.  Zinn is just Chomsky redux.

For example: Zinn claims that George Washington was the richest man in America.  He was not.  He had heavy debts to British lenders and had to borrow money to travel to New York to be inaugurated to the presidency.

Instead of reviewing the ingenuity of great Americans such as Jonas Salk, the Wright Brothers, or Thomas Edison, we are given Joan Baez and the Berrigan Brothers.  Valley Forge gets a mere mention, but Gettysburg and Normandy are completely omitted.  We are treated, however, with lengthy paragraphs on the My Lai massacre.

In the conclusion of the book Zinn readily admits that his "work" is a biased account.  His ideas, the politicization of everything - including the truth - is the handiwork of a totalitarian mind.  Such thinking creates a hermetically sealed world in which nothing exists outside the dialectic at work in the mind of an "intellectual". 

MSM: In your pomp and all your glory, you're a poorer man than me.  As you lick the boots of death born out of fear.

Ian Anderson "Wind up"

 

 

I would agree that Zinn is

I would agree that Zinn is a bit simplistic in his statement about Washington's wealth.  However, if one takes into account property (esp. in what is now WV), holdings aquired through his marriage to Martha, including the value of slaves (not judging, just saying), he was, pre-revolution, the richest.  Debts may have affected this on paper, but his total holdings exceeded any other's.

No, he does not discuss at length the ingenuity of certain famous Americans.  That was simply not the point of his book.  Who says that American history necessarily has to valorize the feel-good stories of American ingenuity?  You can find that in almost any other history book, and Zinn's was not, at the time, just another history book.  No one's denying that Zinn was attempting to write a different kind of U.S. history, one that focuses on the macro-processes of capitalism and labor.  It may even be accurate to call his project Marxist.  However, it is not socialistic in the epithetic sense that Obama is labeled as such, but in the sense that he advocated workers' individual rights in the face of an oligarchical elite.  Again, this essentially gels with the ideology of the current TeaParty movement.

All political discussion is biased and non-objective.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that historians who focus solely on the Major Events of American History (TM) are any less ideologically-motivated than Zinn.

Jason,

I can certainly agree with that.

For the MSM: In your pomp and all your glory, you're a poorer man than me.  As you lick the boots of death born out of fear.

Ian Anderson "Wind up"

 

 

Cool.  Good talk.

Cool.  Good talk.

Debts may have affected

Debts may have affected this on paper, but his total holdings exceeded any other's

Yep plenty of people and comapanies have had that very problem, like Enron.

Um, okay, not sure of the

Um, okay, not sure of the relevance, but yes...

Jason the fact Zinn was in

Jason the fact Zinn was in WWII as a bomber has no bearing on what he wrote except it is where he formed his anti-war views.  There were millions sevring in the military during WWII.  The book POV does not come from the common man as you state but from a Marxist view.  The common man used to know the facts of history but now they are innudated with crap.

And as far as his creds, Im sure he is well revered in the socialist/communist circles and has lots of cred but the common man could care less.

Basically its the facts he did not put in his book or the credit he attributes to minor things.

All I'm saying about his

All I'm saying about his service is that it should make it a little less easy for his critics to cavalierly accuse him of being unpatriotic.  Frankly, if a man who served his country for two years developed a complex about violence, esp. in war, I think he's entitled to it.  I fully agree that it shouldn't affect how his actual views are interpreted and criticized.  However, the rest of your post sounds to me like the one-dimensional ramblings of someone who didn't read the book.

I hate Zinn's book. JasonC loves it.

Through Zinn's looking-glass, Maoist China, site of history's bloodiest state-sponsored killings, transforms into "the closest thing, in the long history of that ancient country, to a people's government, independent of outside control." The authoritarian Nicaraguan Sandinistas were "welcomed" by their own people, while the opposition Contras, who backed the candidate that triumphed when free elections were finally held, were a "terrorist group" that "seemed to have no popular support inside Nicaragua." Castro's Cuba, readers learn, "had no bloody record of suppression."

Thumb through A People's History of the United States and one finds greed motivating every major event. According to Zinn, the separation from Great Britain, the Civil War, and World Wars I and II - to name but a few examples - all stem from base motives involving rich men seeking to get richer at the expense of other men.

 In an effort to bolster his arguments against putting criminals in jail, aggressive law enforcement tactics, and President Clinton's crime bill, Zinn contends that in spite of all this "violent crime continues to increase." It doesn't. Like much of Zinn's rhetoric, if you believe the opposite of what he says in this instance you would be correct. According to a Department of Justice report released in September of 2002, the violent crime rate has been cut in half since 1993.

 Predictably, Zinn draws a moral equivalence between America and the 9/11 terrorists. He writes, "It seemed that the United States was reacting to the horrors perpetrated by the terrorists against innocent people in New York by killing other innocent people in Afghanistan." Scare quotes adorn Bush's "war on terrorism," post-9/11 "patriotism," and other words and phrases Zinn dislikes.

Washington's Farewell Address, Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, and Reagan's speech at the Brandenburg Gate all fail to merit a mention. Nowhere do we learn that Americans were first in flight, first to fly across the Atlantic, and first to walk on the moon. Alexander Graham Bell, Jonas Salk, and the Wright Brothers are entirely absent. Instead, the reader is treated to the exploits of Speckled Snake, Joan Baez, and the Berrigan brothers. While Zinn sees fit to mention that immigrants often went into professions like ditch-digging and prostitution, American success stories like those of Alexander Hamilton, John Jacob Astor, and Louis B. Mayer-to name but a few-are excluded. Valley Forge rates a single fleeting reference, while D-Day's Normandy invasion, Gettysburg, and other important military battles are left out. In their place, we get several pages on the My Lai massacre and colorful descriptions of U.S. bombs falling on hotels, air-raid shelters, and markets during the Gulf War of the early 1990s.

Zinn judges the totally of American history by late 20th century standards; there is no attempt to understand the mental processes of people in earlier times, admittedly a difficult thing to do. But the good historian must attempt it. Otherwise, the writing becomes prejudicial, unfair, and unhistorical; we are not going to want people 200 years from now judging us by their standards.

But every standard history text today used on college campuses discusses in some detail the "negatives" of American history; there are no Washington Irving histories out there now, at least not used in college courses. I know, because I'm a college history professor. My suggestion is not to even waste time reading Zinn, because any good, balanced history of the U.S. will tell you the same story--but also the WHOLE story. If Zinn wants to write a history of oppression and racism, then there is a place, and a need, for that. But don't call it a "People's History of the United States," don't try to pass it off as a survey of the history of this country, because that is deceitful and dishonest, at best. The historian who is an ideologue, the historian with a "cause"--and believe me, plenty such exist today--is a bad historian.

This is nothing more or less than an exercise in airing the dirty laundry of a nation that everyone is aware of, then casting it in the worst possible light so that people can feel superior for knowing how shabby human beings can be to each other. Every nation's beginning is bloody, horrible and disgraceful. The only difference is we have fully documented ours. Ask Professor Zinn which other utopia he'd like to immigrate to. To get the whole picture, read this and Paul Johnson's History of the American People. For intelligent leftist reading, consult Christopher Hitchens.

Oh I give up. This is enough. To counter JasonC, to counter any book JasonC recommends. Simply go to Amazon.com and read the 1 star reviews.

Agree about

Agree about Hitchens.

However, what you and others seem not to understand is that to bash Zinn's book on grounds of not properly celebrating the canonical figures of U.S. history is to miss the point that that's precisely what Zinn was aiming not to do.  The book is meant to be from the point of view of the nameless.  Even those who have taken the effort to read the book, as you apparently have, seem to operate under the delusion that history becomes automatically "revisionist" if it doesn't follow the template of an elementary school textbook publisher.  

Not having the time to attempt to rebut all of your critiques - which are numerous and impressively argued - I'll deal with what I take to be the central complaint: 

Thumb through A People's History of the United States and one finds
greed motivating every major event. According to Zinn, the separation
from Great Britain, the Civil War, and World Wars I and II - to name
but a few examples - all stem from base motives involving rich men
seeking to get richer at the expense of other men. 

But Zinn does not imply that this is the end-all-be-all of America's historical motivations.  Rather, he exposes the very true fact that economics and yes, greed, did underlie many of our activities which are often glossed over as being performed in the service of some grand ideal.  WWII is certainly the most painful of your examples to confront this in...but come one...WWI and the Civil War?  You are not so naive as to suggest that these wars were fought for pure-as-the-driven-snow notions of equality and freedom.  Zinn's point throughout, however, is that while more sinister motivations may have undergirded these events than we normally hear about, it was the average citizens who carried out their difficulties.

Oh I disagree

Don't get me wrong. One of my favorite books is "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee", which is an honest and highly critical treatment of U.S. Indian policy. But, Howard Zinn's narrative merely equates American history with all that is evil, cynical, and unjust in the past 500 years. In a ridiculous abandonment of balance and fairness, Zinn fails to credit the many positive influences and accomplishments of the United States, instead listing a long series of atrocities and crimes committed by the earlier generations of Americans who (in fact) created the society, freedoms, technologies, infrastructure, and institutions upon which Howard Zinn ungratefully relies. He compels readers to believe that the world would have been a better place without the likes of Washington, Jefferson, and Hamilton, who he stops just short of calling fascist enemies of "the people"- all the oppressed workers masses...blah, blah, blah. This pop history is clearly NOT written for anyone interested in a scholarly or balanced study of U.S. History. Self-righteous judgements are an easy practice through the retrospection of Zinn's extensive catalogue of current political correctness. His dark, one-dimensional view of U.S. History is reminiscent of the ridiculously slanted citations I used to read in the "Great Soviet Encyclopedia" while in grad school. But, if you're anxious to wallow in the shame of those evil Founding Fathers, knock yourself out! Personally, I find Paul Johnson's 1998 "History of the American People" a much better researched and comprehensive treatment of the nation's past. Johnson, while not glossing over the rough spots, also demonstrates why Americans should be proud of their contribution to political thought, literature, music, and so on. But, the implication of Zinn's narrative is that the American experience is one for which humanity should be ashamed. I disagree.

This is fun and easy.

JasonC, I am sorry. Zinn

JasonC,

I am sorry. Zinn has a very simplistic way of viewing the world. And let us agree on something right upfront.

His book on American history is HIS OPINION, it is rarely based on historical facts. He uses half-truths in order to manipulate his readers. c'mon now.

The Civil War had to do with economic reasons as much as it had to do with the cause of freeing slaves. The problem  here is that Zinn and I think you, believe that only the latter was a noble cause. I disagree, I believe both were noble causes. The South was going literally no where with their cotton based economy while the North was booming thanks to the industrial revolution. The economic disparity between the North and South were as different as USA versus Latin America today. The North partially fought to save its economy. The South was unwilling to let go of its horrific cotton based economy and fought to keep it. I believe that the North fought for the noble cause of keeping jobs in the North. If the North did not fight to keep its economy and allowed the South to continue, the USA today would be a bunch of third world nations. Do you not find this a noble cause to fight for?

And yes, while many on the Left deny this, the Civil War was fought, in great extend do to slavery. At first Lincoln believed that if he freed all of the Slaves in the South, which by this point, he did not have the power, in the mind of the Dixie States, the war would be lost. However, he soon realized that the Emancipation Declaration was the only way to unite many on the North.

The Civil War was fought for noble causes.

Does America have its sin. Of course it does. Some one already mentioned Wounded Knee, we can also go into the Trail of Tears, the irony of fighting a super racist regime like Nazi Germany and the USA having its troops and its citizens divided by color. The problem that I have is that Left wingers like Zinn love enlarge America's sin, saying that these sins are the ONLY things that define America as a supposed evil Empire. Liberal "professors" like Zinn (I had many radicals like him through out my college career) deny all good that America has done. They do base their "history" of America on greed and corporate based government.

I as a foreigner who became a citizen of this great nation can tell you that America IS a great nation. I can assure you that any other nation with the type of military and economic powere that the USA has, would have already taken over the world. Don't believe me? Look at Ancient Roman history, English history, Spanish history, Aztec history, etc, etc, etc. All nations, Empires who wilded power which equated that of the USA for their time and what did they do? exactly.

On the other hand the USA is the nation that has freed more people around the world.

 and I think someone did a good job at pointing out how Zinn constanly paints radical Communist murderers, like in Central America, as the poor innocent victims of American interference. Convinient that Zinn never mentions the facts that the Communist troops, I mean terrorist, would go into indigineous villages in Central America and wipe out the whole freaking village.

Zinn is a radical Left winger.

As I said, if Zinn is truly about the little people, will he mention as heroes the Tea Party movement? it is grassroot. It comes from fed up individuals, like myself (never been paid by a corporation, never been contacted by anyone Astroturfing to get involved) with our government.

I find it interesting that Zinn puts as heroes individuals that the Left considers its sacred cows.

and by the way, Zinn being a WWII veteran does not give him a blank check to pass as history his radical Left wing opinions about America.

and sorry, I do not find Berkely University an impressive university. I find it a place where dissent of Liberal orthodoxy is not only unwelcomed, but attacked with a vindictive hatred. I find it unimpressive that he receive any type of tenure or profersorhips in this incredibly radical and communist "university" where Muslim terrorist are cheered and supported by the student population, staff and faculty.

Matt who?

I apologize for this little piece of crap is from my state of Mass, but then I have to apologize for my state all the time.

"For the thousandth time in my adult life I am ashamed of my downright stupid state".

Slickwillie you are correct, good movie and that is how Demon........... got involved with the America hating Zinn.  

Scott Brown for Senate.  

A great man once said, YOU only get out of life what YOU put into it, he obviously wasn't a liberal.

I used to accasionally watch it

Now it's on my skip channel list.

50/50

My wife and I both enjoyed the Bourne series even if the plot lines bear little resemblence to the books. Having said that, I think they did a good job of knitting together a trilogy with a fairly decent ending. I think Damon did an okay job of walking through the films and he even showed emotion a couple of times.

Except....

we actually prefer Mark Wahlberg. I haven't seen Wahlberg whining about polar bears and Bushitler, but we're worn out with fluffers like Damon doing the rich white guilt thing.

I suspect a lot of these folks are just doing it for the face time. It seems the few faces I've seen are all yesterday's news.

 

I'm still not convinced...

that this thing can simply be written off and lefty propaganda. That douche-bag Glover at the beginning of the clip though, would seem to suggest a lefty bias, but they've said nothing more radical than what's been said by Tea Party Protesters. Question authority - they're not telling you which authority to question as do the Democrats and Republicans; they're saying Question [all] Authority.

Warped brain they, the films

Warped brain they, the films producer financiers and actors, are saying they are the authority.  Can you warp your brain around that?  They say forget what thousands of years of factual history says, I say it is wrong.

Dan The Man 2, You are

Dan The Man 2,

You are trying to use reason and logic with a Liberal. It is a futile attempt.

As someone already pointed out, this is a film which was created by millionares who have nothing better to do than to trash the nation that made them millionares.

Hollyweird money alone could end poverty in the USA! Why won't these Communist give up their millions to the American people? They are a bunch of sad hypocrites looking for fame.

All of these Hollyweirds can pay for the healthcare insurance of every single American. hmmm...if they are as compassionate as they claim, why haven't they bought us all health insurance?

I can go on with the list of things that these hypocrites can do with their money, but you get the picture.

Sadly, this film will be used to radicalized young Americans. Only already radicalized Left wingers will believe anything that Damon, Zinn, etc spew out about American history

You're typo was fun:

Dan The Man 2 is actually a Liberal, adorably, attempting to use what liberals consider to be reason and logic; censorship and derision.
Fortunately, you're not a completely lost cause - most of your post has merit - it was just your half-brained attempt at redefining an actual conservative as a liberal in order to keep your tidy world free of any cognitive dissonance that makes you appear foolish.

You're just buying the hype...

They do not once call themselves out as an authority, I've only seen them reading various documents verbatim, citing historical events and stating opinions - "the words of actual people," as they prefaced it. They may be guilty of manipulating the truth to present a very specific point of view, but I've seen no fabrications yet. It appears that you may be claiming to be the authority here; there is no such thing as "thousands of years of factual history" - only recorded history as it was recorded by those who recorded it, with all of their respective biases in tact. Have the balls to admit you're only interested in diminishing the credibility of those your too scared to listen to long enough to determine whether or not their messages have any merit.

Don't Jump the Gun!

I think you guys may be a bit premature.  I'm sure the film-makers will devote at least 5 minutes to the tea-partiers of 2009.  After all, as Zinn himself said:

"...we didn't want to hear the words of the White House, we wanted to hear the words of the people picketing the White House..."

"...the people who gave us whatever liberty and democracy we have in this country..."

Don't know about you, but that sure sounds like the groups who have spent the past 6 months reminding Washington how our democracy works and who the ulimated "bosses" are.

Antidote to Zinn's America Hatred

 I posted this on the other Zinn-related NB story today:

If you, or perhaps a young person you know has ever been subjected to Zinn's dihonest, self-hating "history," a perfect antidote is Paul Johnson's "A History of the American People," here: http://tinyurl.com/ygzvoqe

Johnson's a brilliant Brit with an affection for America sorely missing from all the left wing revionist crapolla out there. Don't take my word for it; skim the Amazon reviews and check out how much it upsets lefties.

The History Channel is to History...

what the Discovery Channel is to real science...

 

"If God is dead, somebody is going to have to take his place. It will be megalomania or erotomania, the drive for power or the drive for pleasure, the clenched fist or the phallus, Hitler or Hugh Hefner." — Malcolm Muggeridge

It's still history. Just a

It's still history. Just a certain view -- however flawed -- of history.

I really like on the Discovery Channel and History when they present one side's sensational view on, say, the DaVinci Code or Ancient Astronauts, and then bring in the other side to say, "Eh, not so much." 

I like how they invent...

fictitious and sensational CG stories surrounding the lives of dinosaurs, leading you to believe that they somehow have figured out how dinosaurs lived and adapted. How do you get all of that from the fragment of a fossil? Did the fossil come with a tag? Did it talk to them and tell them how it got there? Sensationalism rules at the Discovery Channel.

 

"If God is dead, somebody is going to have to take his place. It will be megalomania or erotomania, the drive for power or the drive for pleasure, the clenched fist or the phallus, Hitler or Hugh Hefner." — Malcolm Muggeridge

Hm. I think they usually

Hm. I think they usually present good reasons for why they've figured out the things they have. At least in what I've seen. And have stated that this is what they think happened.

Nonetheless, I would be interested in the History Channel providing opposing views of Zinn. 

Balboa, What a warped

Balboa,

What a warped statements from you Balboa!

It's still history. Just a

December 9, 2009 - 15:56 ET by balboa

It's still history. Just a certain view -- however flawed -- of history.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

History doesn't have certain views. History is history. Using your statement, Balboa one would have to say that Stalin's, Hitler's, Mao Tsung's etc views of history and how they forced their schools to teach it was legitimate too, eh?

History doesn't have different point of views. This is one of the biggest lies Leftists teachers and later Leftist professors push on their students.

Howard Zinn is a radical, Left winger who enjoys distorting history.

Let us see if Zinn and his mindles minions in Hollywood, Damon, et al. praise the Tea party movement which is grassroots and it questions authority.

It should tell you a lot that the clip says that he considers anarchists individuals who have shaped American history. EH?! what "history" is this fool reading?

History is all about the facts. The facts do not have different point of views or change with time. History is history.

Depending on what they show, it is time to boycott the History Channel.

Anyone know the numbers, emails to contact the History Channel?

Sure, history is the facts

Sure, history is the facts of what occurred, but there can be different views of those facts, why certain things occurred or what caused them to happen, which events were more important than others. 

Balboa, Honestly, not

Balboa,

Honestly, not picking a fight or insulting you.

I do not understand, "Sure, history is the facts of what occurred, but there can be different views of those facts..." eh?

what happened, happened. how it happened, it is how it happened. why it happened, is because it happened.

Doesn't matter how you or I or anyone else views an event or thinks about an event. Our personal bias, our personal point of views do not change anything of why, how and what happend in history. The rest is an attempt to re-write history and to influence the mind of those who are not educated.  

 

You don't think there can be

You don't think there can be different opinions as to why something occurred? Ask the question "What caused the Civil War," and you'll invariably get different answers, or you'll get similar answers but differences on the importance of each factor. 

Ask people why Bush won the election (besides the fact that he had the most electoral votes, of course), what caused the Great Depression, and you'll get different opinions. 

I hope this explains better what I'm talking about.  

cripto-dummy can't shut up.

You don't think there can be different opinions as to why something occurred? Ask the question "What caused balboas brain to shrink," and you'll invariably get different answers, or you'll get similar answers but differences on the importance of each factor. 

Ask people why balboa fell down the elevator shaft (besides the fact that he had forced open the door, of course), what caused his brain damage, and you'll get different opinions. 

I hope this explains better what he babbles on about.  

See, now you're just

See, now you're just attacking me. I posed a serious point, was questioned about it, and posted a serious follow-up. 

Get over it. 

~Balboa

I've got a serious point right here for ya. Cowboy up and answer it.

In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.

 

Your link doesn't work for

Your link doesn't work for me. Can you post it on the first page of that thread?

~IT IS on the first page

You could just go to the Behar and Sullivan page and scroll down, since your Mac seems to be giving you a fit.

In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.

 

OMG, Bal... you use a mac! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh... i hate macs!

: (

So do I,

But only because I use one

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Balboa, I apologize, I

Balboa,

I apologize, I did not see the answer to my post until right now. Here is my answer.

You changed the goal post and with it, you agreed with it.

Having an opinion about an event is very different than that opinion being factual and/or historical, correct?

I agree that if you ask any historian why the Civil War happened, you may get many different answers. However, just because there are many historians with different OPINIONS it doesn't mean that they are historical accurate, correct?

Opinion and history/facts are two completly different things.

I can give my opinion of why the Civil War in the USA happened, but that is my opinion. The HISTORY and FACTS of why it happened are not debateable, these are hardcore that can't be changed, correct?

Zinn's book is his warped, left wing, marxist, anti-American OPINION of American history. Very little is based on hardcore facts. He grabs historical events and he gives HIS OPINION OF why they happened! how is this historical or factual? it is not!

He constantly equates America with evil empires through out history. And if you have read his book, this guy actually admires Red China. Typical of the 1960s Red Book carrying, hardcore lefty.

However, you did explain your point better. Reading someone opinions in history, I more than tolerate and welcome. Now passing a book as historically accurate when it is just someone's opinion, that is when I have a problem. Zinn and the radical Left wingers like Damon are doing the latter.

Balboa, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I hope you find my reply as insightful as I found yours.

take care.

It should tell you a lot

It should tell you a lot that the clip says that he considers
anarchists individuals who have shaped American history. EH?! what
"history" is this fool reading?

But whether you like it or not, they have.  The labor movements of the oughts, teens and twenties, whether you like it or not, are part of the reason why people die far less in industrial accidents, we can be reasonably confident in the meat we purchase at the grocery store, workers can't be fired for not working 80 hour weeks, and children can't be essentially sold into wage slavery.  Those who identified as anarchists were indeed a part of this movement.

JasonC, It was a small

JasonC,

It was a small group of anarchist among a group of pro-union workers. The anarchists did not shape American history, the union members did shape it. Yes I am aware of the riots, etc, etc. But for radical Left winger,  hate-America Zinn to imply that anarchist have had a huge say in American history is dishonest at best and manipulative at worst.

Zinn, loves to use half-truths in order to manipulate individuals into believing his made up history of America.

Stupid Actors

It's amazing how people who memorize lines and pretend to be someone else for a living seem to think that they are politically astute and actually have something worthy to say regarding politics, science, history, etc.

I have no respect for these imbeciles.  The only person I would even consider listening to would be Brian May from the rock group Queen.  He has his PhD in astro physics, so I would take his opinion seriously.  Matt Damon?  Don't make me laugh.

Hey, give Matty a break. 

Hey, give Matty a break.  He went to Harvard for 4 years and didn't graduate.  I guess he was too darn smart for 'em.

"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me

DaMama then they have the

DaMama then they have the nerve to complain about having no privacy.  I have no sympathy when the papparazi chase them around. 

This book should only be read if:

1) you realize that it is being touted by a wealthy elitist Hollywoodenhead like Damon.

4) like to read "history" without footnotes or citations. 

3) you believe that history does NOT have to be objective.

4) you believe that there were no bloody reprecussions in Castro's Cuba.

4) you don't mind that the NYT said that it should be required reading.

5) you understand that the American Civil War served as a distraction from the impending socialist revolution.

6) you believe that ALL societies exist because of class struggle.

7) you are willing to endure politically motivated inaccuracies, tedious rants, and partisanship for objectivity.

 

I could go on an belabor the point, but the bottom line is that Zinn was either trying to show that he is a paranoid with delusions of grandeur, or he was trying to write a book on historical comedy.  Either way, Zinn only serves for good ol' milk through the nose humor.

And I apologize for the double post.

For the MSM: In your pomp and all your glory, you're a poorer man than me.  As you lick the boots of death born out of fear.

Ian Anderson "Wind up"

 

 

Oy

 

 No more tickies to Mattie's movies.

Can't cancel the History Channel....already did that when

I found out about Comcast's soiled nose problem with the

Obama Administration.  Anyone recommend a Dish network

not overseen by Media Matters or anyone of that ilk?

 

"Look Ma.....I'm King of the World!"  B. H. Obama

Wrote this in Sunday's open thread:

Bias on the History Channel
December 6, 2009 - 12:00 ET by ahusser

Tonight is an airing of a show "The People Speak". Now I don't want to be prejudiced but. This about the show from the History Channel website:

"The People Speak Story

By Dr. Libby H. O'Connell for HISTORY Magazine

"Author, historian, teacher, activist, and now television producer
Dr. HowardZinn is a man on a mission. He wants Americans to recognize
the power of protest in shaping their country's history. Along with
executive producers Matt Damon, Chris Moore, Josh Brolin, and Anthony
Arnove, he is moving his message from high schools and college campuses
to film and, later this year, to HISTORY"... (Danny Glover will also do some narration).

and from Howard Zinn's bio:

"Zinn was raised in a
working-class family in Brooklyn, and flew bombing missions for the
United States in World War II, an experience he now points to in
shaping his opposition to war. In 1956, he became a professor at
Spelman College in Atlanta, a school for black women, where he soon
became involved in the Civil rights movement, which he participated in
as an adviser to the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC)
and chronicled, in his book SNCC: The New Abolitionists. Zinn
collaborated with historian Staughton Lynd and mentored a young student
named Alice Walker. When he was fired in 1963 for insubordination
related to his protest work, he moved to Boston University, where he
became a leading critic of the Vietnam War."

He is perhaps best known for A People's History of the United States, which presents American history through the eyes of those he feels are outside of the political and economic establishment."

Needless to say I think I am going to pass this probable
liberal/socialist lovefest I am sure of which will be chock full social
justice/social protest and the glorification of same (you know evil
white folk, evil capitalists, evil corporations, evil warmongers etc.
etc. etc. I should however not be a hypocrite or prejudiced and watch the show to
make an accurate and truthful judgement. Nah I think I am going to pass.

"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'

history channel

I used to watch the History Channel because they for the most part they showed history but after NBC took over it's nothing more than another leftist mouth piece. No need to watch it anymore.

Wait a minute.  What the

Wait a minute.  What the hell is leftist about "The History of Cheese"?

Jer

Insert smart tushy answer here.

  Pause for effect. Put down. Put down. Put down. Filler. Wiffle. Waffle. Pause for effect. Punchline in bold - wheel of brie! Wait for laugh.

  Exit. Stage left.

I gotta tell ya...this is a

I gotta tell ya...this is a rough crowd.

Jer

LOL

-Dave

Either impeach Obama, or prepare to watch your country die. It's your choice, America.

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