MSNBC's Martin Bashir: Romney Dodged Draft by Performing Missionary Work
On the April 17 edition of his afternoon program, MSNBC's Martin Bashir mocked Mitt Romney’s unabashed support for our military. Bashir insulted Romney claiming that, “for all his endless references to military personnel, was this not the same Mitt Romney who managed to dodge the draft during Vietnam and spent most of his time I believe in France as a Mormon missionary?”
Bashir has a storied history of slandering conservatives for what he calls ‘chicken hawks’ as individuals who deliberately dodge the draft. Last October, Bashir falsely claimed Herman Cain dodged the draft despite serving as a civilian employee in the Department of the Navy during the Vietnam War. [See video below. MP3 audio here.]
Bashir loves to invoke Scripture as a means of attacking Republicans but believes doing missionary work for the Mormon church is no excuse for not serving in Vietnam. Of course, it doesn't seem to bother the British-born Bashir that his self-described socialist colleague Lawrence O’Donnell avoided the draft by getting a college deferment. And indeed, Bashir himself never served in the military either, although presumably he had every opportunity to serve in the British armed forces. Bashir was 19 in 1982 when the British prosecuted and won the Falklands War.
Bashir’s disgusting attack should be expected from extremists at the Daily Kos but as a so-called ‘journalist’ we would expect some standards from the MSNBC host, but apparently religious tolerance isn’t in Bashir’s repertoire.
See relevant transcript below.
MSNBC
MARTIN BASHIR
April 17, 2012
3:08 p.m.
MARTIN BASHIR: David [Corn], although Mitt Romney won't talk about his personal taxes. He does like to talk a lot about the military and veterans in particular. He likes to talk about them at nearly every event. Take a look.
MITT ROMNEY: Do we have any veterans or members of our armed services here? Please raise your hand. Thank you, be recognized. Do we have any veterans or members of our armed services here? Please raise your hand. Do we have any veterans here or members of the armed services here? Please raise your hand. Do we have any veterans or members of our armed forces here? Please raise your arm, your hand. . Do we have any veterans here, members of our armed forces here? Raise your hand be recognized.
BASHIR: Now David [Corn], for all his endless references to military personnel, was this not the same Mitt Romney who managed to dodge the draft during Vietnam and spent most of his time I believe in France as a Mormon missionary?
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Comments
Of course.... what else would
Submitted by clancie on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 4:27pm.
Of course.... what else would these idiot, political bigots say? They have the original "draft dodger", Billy "lewinsky" Clinton.
And Barack Obama didn't serve
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 4:38pm.
And Barack Obama didn't serve (in peacetime no less) because ........????
And yet, he not only loves to talk about them, he actually admits he "uses" them as props, tellling them Hey, you guys make a good photo-op!
Barack Obama did not serve
Submitted by bmac32 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 4:44pm.
Barack Obama did not serve because Barack Obama is not a citizen.
Citizen or not, he could've served
Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:50pm.
One need not be a US citizen to serve to the armed forces of the Unites States. One must be a citizen to receive a commission, thiough.
the funny thing is I know a
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:10pm.
the funny thing is I know a Brit, a really, stupid Brit who got himself drafted into American Army. he went through basic, got deployed then also got discovered he was Brit..they shipped him home faster than anyone I've ever seen.
We were all in Phu Bai...his name was Stewart... he carried his Brit passport to Vietnam.. when the captain saw it, he damn near shook, the colonel then took over and Stewie was gone within 24 hours. Stewie sent postcards for the next 6 months from travels in USA. we enjoyed those cards...lol..
He had been in the army almost 8 months by then.
Amazing,
Submitted by Boudin on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:06pm.
Great story.
Jk, just curious.
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:20pm.
How long did you spend in Phu Bai, compared to the Brit?
We had one, a Nicaraguan, in our Basic Training company, but he only lasted until the first time he got assigned to KP, then he went to the 1st Sergeant, and he was gone that day. He really didn't like cleaning the grease trap.
I arrived in january of
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 9:31pm.
I arrived in january of 1971...Stewie was already there. I'd guess I knew him may be 4-6 weeks before he was discovered.
I recall him saying he did his basic about 5 months before me.
using that time line, he would've arrived about 5 months before I did. and spent about 6-7 months total in Nam.
he was pure limey, his accent was thick and no one in command noticed and put two and two together..
I found the entire experience a blur, kind of a melancholy blur. dull, not dreary but just dull... it was extremely difficult to fix time by nature, using traditional seasons..
I began January 3rd 1971 but went home on december 20th maybe 21st of 1971. the date to this day is a blur..the international date line always has blurred me. I went from 90 plus degree heat, a drab military environment and arrived in Chicago at Christmas, 25 inches of snow, all merry like ...just bizarre.
that era was just bizarre. In November of 1972 I received a notice from my draft board, I WOULDN'T be drafted. they were drafting below my number. we had not yet invented the expression "yeah right" then.
Baracka can't even pronounce "corpseman"
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:08pm.
And yes, the only utility he sees in our military is as a photo-op.
DISGUSTING!
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Not named "Basher" for nothing....
Submitted by Pilgrim1949 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 4:35pm.
...but nothing's about all Basher has to offer for arguments.
Totally unarmed in a battle of wits.
"Ye canne change the laws of physics....." but some politicians believe that with the right legislation you can pretend they don't really apply to your own pet projects...
Yeah, and Cross-Eyed Corn, another decorated veteran.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 4:42pm.
.
In the race
Submitted by fivestring_assassin on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 4:47pm.
to the bottom at MSNBC Martin Bashir is far and away in the lead
So now giving a shout-out to
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:30pm.
So now giving a shout-out to military people in the audience, or expressing admiration for them is not allowed, unless one served?
OK, well Obama is going to have to knock it off. And his wife can forget about visiting any more military families too.
This is one more stooooooopid
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:30pm.
This is one more stooooooopid POS SOB. I think he is dumber that Madcow. Mormons must do a 2 year mission. Maybe his number didn't come up for the draft. I haven't seen any letters where he wrote a Col telling him he loathed the military. He may have been 4F.
rick, you're forgetting
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:32pm.
rick, you're forgetting motherbelt's axiom:
Liberals know the truth. The facts are a conspiracy.
Romney would not have been
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:01pm.
Romney would not have been part of a draft lottery in 1965 .. the draft lottery occurred in 1970.
Romney would've received a draft number in 1970 because the first draft was all inclusive of birth dates. (anyone born on or before 1951)
his number would have been 24.
High Number
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 9:46pm.
In April 1965, Romney registered with the Selective Service but was not considered readily available for military service until December 1970. When he became eligible for military service in 1970, he drew a high number in the annual draft lottery and at that time no one drawing higher than 195 was drafted.
Maybe the website I'm linking to is bogus, but it appears somewhat official.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
the website I found had some
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 10:34pm.
the website I found had some interesting numbers. one struck me as bogus..a friend i know whom was born april 19 1950..got a draft number in the 300's which placed him in the category of never being drafted, yet they list on this report a number under 100, a sure place to be drafted in 1970. but its the only number I am sure was out of line..
By late 1970 draft requirements were reducing incredibly...it would not be until years later I truly noticed.. 1969 or 68 meant YOU were drafted period. and everyone felt they were had.
by the spring of 73 I did know a friend who had the distinction of the last to be drafted from Porter County Indiana with a draft number of 45.
Fun times, weren't they?
Submitted by Pilgrim1949 on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:00am.
Had a 4-S (I think it was) deferment while in college, but upon graduation in June of '72 my draft number guaranteed that by September I received my "Greetings from the President of the United States..." (wow, he personally wrote to lil' ol' ME?) and shortly thereafter went into the Air Force. Gee, the only lottery I never wanted to enter and I was a "winner"! Wheeee....
Little whiny Martin is just another barking-at-the-moon Libtard, trying to puff up his empty-chest (matching his equally empty head) and pointing his own bony little accusatory finger at others whose personal life and success stories put his safe-at-home, cushy-tushy, stay-in-his-comfort-zone life to shame.
"Ye canne change the laws of physics....." but some politicians believe that with the right legislation you can pretend they don't really apply to your own pet projects...
In regards to draft dodging
Submitted by djwolf12 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:37pm.
Bashir should find out what that is like first hand from Chris Matthews.
➚Did Obama even register?
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:50pm.
Are Kenyans required to register for selective service?
in 1969 the answer was
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:55pm.
in 1969 the answer was NO...my first dormitory had one student who was foreign.. everyone else was American and everyone else had registered. we all made comments about him being lucky.
1969 the draft was an intense subject. the lottery would occur in the spring of 1970 taking much of her intensity off the subject.
when Obama graduated high school circa 1979, i doubt any intensity existed with a draft.
my memory of the draft fades quickly from 1973 forward..as no one was being drafted.
1979?
Submitted by texastommy on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 7:55am.
I don't think there was a draft in 1979. WHilke at Ft. Benning in 1970-1971 there were VOLAR (Voluntary Army) signs everywhere drumming up support for the idea. I think 1973 was the last draft, but my memory fades.
Good question, CA.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:01pm.
Sheriff Arpiao has apparently requested Obama's original draft registration application and card, but apparently the government can't or won't turn one over.
Maybe they can get the same people who manufactured his "original" birth certificate to come up with one.
For the life of me, I don't know why Romney isn't pledging to release ALL of his forms if Obama will do the same.
EXCELLENT QUESTION
Submitted by JeremySmithColl on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:41pm.
Did Obama ever register for the Selective Service when he turned 18? EXCELLENT QUESTION... I wonder who would investigate this, or where would one start...
Obama's draft card appears to
Submitted by reddog339 on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 2:46am.
Obama's draft card appears to be forged - date not right- Pussy press won't investigate this either.
I am SO FRUSTRATED by this!
Submitted by Annie Ashe Fields on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 3:31am.
Every day I check the following sites for news on the OBVIOUS problems on Obama's dox:
www.wnd.com
www.orlytaitzesq.com
www.westernjournalism.com
And nearly every day I am disappointed. While all of them have done yeoman's work one way or another, NONE of them meets the magnitude of the PROBLEM!!!!!!!
Look... this is a national security issue now. Obama's fraud is the subject of the press OVERSEAS - People who can BLACKMAIL HIM. People who have access to INTERPOL - who can SEE HIS FRAUDULENT PASSPORT.
Is there NO-ONE in one of our security agencies who can ARREST HIM? NO-ONE?
Can't the very draconian laws that Obama has signed to abuse power on US be used to arrest HIM? Can't we DETAIN HIM INDEFINITELY until he CONFESSES?
My God!
"Is there NO-ONE ...
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:49am.
... in one of our security agencies who can ARREST HIM?"
Unfortunately, Annie, there is NO ONE in our Congress or SCOTUS who is WILLING to take this problem on.
The Constitution cannot protect itself. Someone must be willing to step up and fight the fight, and apparently the only person in the country willing to risk his life for that is Sheriff Joe Arpaio in AZ.
Let's hope he doesn't have a "heart attack" before he can get someone, ANYONE, in Washington to listen to him.
This is just one more example of Liberal "Hate".
Submitted by jawebster1 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:54pm.
Only someone motivated by hate for any and all Republicans could possibly come up with that one.
I have MSNBC blocked on my TV so I don't accidentally watch this channel even for a split second while channel surfing.
Grasping at straws...
Submitted by KyWriter on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 5:58pm.
Bashir has only limited cognitive skills, but a desperate need for liberal acceptance, so he's liable to say anything. Maybe he can get Dan Rather to forge some papers for him, if he plans to bring up the military angle.
the military angle can
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:48pm.
the military angle can backfire..Romney can show a selective service card at a drop of the hat. he could dare Obama to show his.
by bringing the subject up Bashir opens a can of worms.
Same thing I was thinking,jk
Submitted by the struggler on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:38pm.
Same thing I was thinking,jk
Liberals have an uncanny
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 10:47pm.
Liberals have an uncanny habit of bringing up subjects which lead directly to their own downfall.
They remind me of Jack Nicholson in a "few good men" who convict themselves. this entire period since 2008 is a huge time of them exposing and also convicting themselves.
I frankly wish these politicians had someone like my father who was incredible at taking someone else words and nailing them. he'd let people talk them nail them with their own words..never ever disclosing his own opinion.
I give ya an example..I ran for politcal office in 1992 and won..My father said go door to door in areas where people will vote for my opponent.2. ask questions how they feel about the politcal environment, never ever make statements leading to arguments...then 3 finish up the discussion with a short 1-2 minute statement what I would do in office. upon finishing the 2 minute talk tell my voter, thank you and leave them with one thought.. here is the clincher.. I would say when my honorable opponent came to ask you for your vote, ask her what she will do?
My father knew my opponent would not ever meet anyone. all those voters would be waiting for her to show, which she never did. she lost after holding the position for 30 plus years. always winning with 2-1 vote leads. 65% to 35% wins.
I would agree, with one tiny change...
Submitted by texasborngranny on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 8:37am.
Liberals have an uncanny habit of bringing up subjects which [could] lead directly to their own downfall.
We know the media is going to cover for the liberals in those circumstances and that in almost every case, the Republicans don't have the backbone to follow through.
At least Romney registered with selective service.
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:04pm.
Although that in itself wouldn't make a very good campaign commercial.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Go Figure
Submitted by BuffNBone on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:29pm.
Outside of a military setting, the first time I was EVER thanked for my service flying missions over Vietnam was at the Salt Lake City Airport in 2006--some 31 years after my last in country mission. I'd be lying if I said it didn't bring a tear to my eye.
Having served is not a requirement to express gratitude.
I hear you, brother.
Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 6:39pm.
I'm too young for the 'Nam vets, but when I was serving in the '80s, I got thanked while walking in uniform in a mall in Biloxi, Mississippi. That was Reagan's America, and it does a vet proud.
I say God bless Mitt Romney for thanking the troops, and Bashir can go right back to the rock he crawled out from under--somewhere at the bottom of the English Channel, I would hope.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
I was going to leave this alone, but I came back to say it.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:39pm.
I was in the same boat as you, Buff. I served almost 30 years, and not once during that time did anyone ever say "thank you" for my service, and I really never expected them to after returning to this country after Vietnam. Actually, I really didn't give a shiite if they were thankful or not. I was proud of what we, and ALL veterans, gave and continue to give for this country. I never see a bunch of young active duty types in a bar without buying a round for them and thanking them for their service.
Quite frankly protestors, and most modern day liberals can kiss may ass.
After 9/11, I was driving somewhere with my daughter and she asked me why I stayed in the Air Force so many years. I told her.
When I finished she looked very thoughtful for several minutes, then said "Thank you, dad for doing that." I damned near wrecked the car trying to drive and keep from sobbing while looking through the moisture clouding my vision. It'd a macho thing, you know?
Now, each Veterans Day all my kids call me and talk.
So "Thank You," Buffy for all you did for our country! We may have to do it again before this ends.
I am curious. my dad, uncles
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:50pm.
I am curious. my dad, uncles etc were all ww2 veterans and each and every one of them felt, their service needed no added glorious announcements..this feeling prevailed from my birth to age 18.. what age group were your parents? I am curious if and how they handled their own service..
in my youth I encountered no one of ww2 era who encouraged anyone to be military.
Maybe I'm wrong
Submitted by BuffNBone on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 11:09pm.
Possibly I am misreading your post. I do not consider a simple thank you or an acknowledgement of service as a "glorious announcement".
My parents got engaged on Dec. 7th, 1941--before the announcement about Pearl Harbor. My father was on shore leave from boot camp. A stint in the merchant marine prior to enlisting placed him in an odd category of having some sea experience just not the Navy way. His service was on a troop ship in the Pacific. One parent was first generation American and the other second. An aunt lost her fiance as an aircrewman over Europe. The effort in WWII was total for the country and afterwards most just wanted to put it behind them and get on with life. As I recall exchanges between those who served were which branch and which theater. Then a simple head nod between them.
As another poster on this thread noted in the late 60's if your status was I-A you most likely were going to serve in the military somewhere and sometime. The question was which branch and for how long. So after college graduation I took many service related physicals eventually ending up in the Air Force. I think I was in OTS when my parents said I received notice to report for my Army induction physical.
I can't say I was encouraged to join the military but there always was support from my family. Support varied according to what part of the country you were in. The south tended and still tends to be more supportive over the long haul. Post 9/11 there was widespread support but that seems to be on the wane.
Perspective helps. For me, Kipling's Tommy says alot
...
Submitted by texastommy on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 8:14am.
Quite frankly, I get embarrased when someone now thanks me for my service, some 25 years after it was over. I think I'd have been embarrased at the time, too. But I never was. I wasn't spit on, either, but was refused service at a restaurant in the airport "for being in unifiorm." Hell, all I wanted was a damn piece of pizza.
I didn't (and don't) need the thanks of anybody. I knew I was doing what had to be done and that was all I needed. I'm proud I did it, but aI don't advertise it. Every year my university (where I work) has a big deal on veterans day. Photos, displays, symposiums and the like. I feel sorry for all those that must be there to show off their ribbons and medals and tell endless lies about what they want you to believe they did. They love the attention of the handfull or curiosity seekers who come and gawk. My fruit salad is in a drawer at home, and there it shall remain.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that military service is no longer considered to be the opitome of evil. I also appreciate those who "support and defend" our military. I, personally, just don't need the attention.
Missed opportunities
Submitted by BuffNBone on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:57am.
I neither seek out nor shy away from opportunities to edumacate civilians about things military.
If those who have been there fail to relate the good and bad aren't we just setting up the following generations to experience Santayana's quote about repeating history?
I'm lucky, JK. I was born and raised in the South.
Submitted by Newsbubba on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:10am.
I had ancestors who served in the Revolutionary War, the War of Northern Aggression, WWI (my father, a couple of uncles), WWII, (more uncles, and several cousins), Korea (a brother, a brother-in-law), and I grew up surrounded by military bases and personnel. I woke up almost everyday of my life to "The Sound of Freedom" overhead.
I got my very own single shot 22 rifle when I was 6, and a shotgun when I was 10. I never had the urge to shoot another person when I was growing up, and in high school EVERYONE had their weapons in the trunk of the car at school, because you could run out and hunt a few minutes before it got dark if you were lucky. Didn't even have to lock the cars.
There was never any doubt in my mind that I would be in some branch of the military.
When I was a senior in college, I applied to every branch for officer training, and accepted the first one to respond. The offer said that I had 24 hours to accept or decline, so I accepted. The next couple of days, all of the others rolled in, but I was committed.
It is still the best job that I have ever had, and I would not do anything differently.
Nobody needs to thank me, because I should thank them for allowing me to serve. By the same token, I don't really want to have to listen to any Shiite about our military from some liberal asshole, either.
That's why Barack Hussein Obama, mmm, mmm MMM, pisses me off so much. He wants to destroy my country as much as anyone that our military has ever been to war with.
To let you veterans know, I
Submitted by stratman on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:00pm.
To let you veterans know, I thank every one of my patients who are or have been in the Military for their service. I also make a conscious effort to thank those I met wherever I interact with them, each and every one of them.
You all deserve recognition for sacrificing for me and my family. Thank you for your service.
Ahhhhhhhhh, ...
Submitted by Newsbubba on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:04pm.
" ... as a so-called ‘journalist’ we would expect some standards from the MSNBC host"
Exactly why would that be? Has MSNBC ever once acted like a real journalistic news channel?
Romney was born in 47, so he
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:55pm.
Romney was born in 47, so he would have been eligible for the draft around 1965. 1965 marks the beginning of the intense draft debates..in this era all forms of diversion to the draft would occur..student, was high on the list..4 F was another, conscientious objector another. the list goes on and on..
suppose Romney spent 2 years missionary service and 4 years college.. or a total of 6 years, placing his first real draft eligibility by 1971..he could then have had a draft number too high to draft. the lottery came about in 1970. if i recall, there were two..spring 1970 then again in July. July gave me my number. 99
Not to mention
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 10:13pm.
....he had 3 kids, IIRC, while he was in college.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Blonde - check your PM.
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 1:37am.
Blonde - check your PM.
I was born in '47 too...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 1:31am.
and graduated from college in '69. Almost all graduate deferments had been eliminated, but I hadn't heard from my draft board in a couple of years and remained classified 2-S. Nevertheless, I was able to get in a Guard unit that was exceedingly gung-ho. Shortly after I left for basic, the lottery was announced. I was at Fort Campbell, Ky when the drawing was held in Dec.--my # was 250, well above the highest # drafted.
However, for the most part, I enjoyed the six-year stint--especially the last four after transferring to the Army Reserves. The Guard sergeants didn't care for college boys whose hair in the back even slightly touched the top of the collar, so several times I was threatened with having papers cut to send my ass to Nam. [Otherwise, I was a model soldier.] After my transfer into the Reserves--with only twelve of us in the JAG unit--there were no inspections as long as we didn't seriously flout the regs.
By the way, during all of those years ['69-'75] neither I, nor anyone I knew, was the object of any anti-military abuse. Nor did any of my friends and relatives who served in Vietnam claim they were ever spit at...and I asked them. I'm not saying it never occurred, but I believe the incidents were rare.
Jer
Jer - I could claim that I
Submitted by killa37 on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 1:50am.
Jer - I could claim that I was born in 47..............but I'd rather not!!! Hahahahaha!!! And why is your hair BROWN???? Are you dying it?? Hell, even though I still have my hair.............it ceased to be brown a LONG time ago!!! Maybe you don't have kids??
I have a quote for you - from my dear Father - who was the most ethical and straightforward and honest guy anyone could ever meet!!! When my older son was a Navy SEAL, and my younger son was in the Coast Guard Acadamy - my 'Pop' (who was a retired US Infantry Col) said to me - 'how the hell did a draft-dodger like you end up with two fine, upstanding sons'?????
Hahahahahaha!!!
I didn't have an answer for him....................hell, I was living on the North Shore, and surfing and playing rock'n'roll and expanding my 'mind'..................going to Vietnam was the LAST thing on my agenda - especially with the beach, the waves, the girls, the music, the dope, and the new lifestyle!!! And - to tell you the truth - and this might be kind of controversial.............I had the idea that the whole Vietnam thing was a political boondoggle (and my father even verified that - since he was working 18 hour days at the Pentagon, while I was living it up in Hawaii!!)..............and I didn't want to be a 'pawn in their game'..............and I believe that I have been proven to be right with that choice!!
But, Jer..........I was also working at the Honolulu Airport at the time - at a rent-a-car agency.......near where all the Vietnam draftees and soldiers would be waiting, while their airplane refueled on their way to Asia. And they would come around our little booth.......and I'd be sitting there with a gorgeous Avis girl.............and I'd be the same age and fitness as these guys, and some of them would try and give me a hard time!! But I was not, and am not, anti-military............so I always told them that I hoped they would get out of there intact - physically and mentally and spiritually - because I KNEW that they were also 'pawns in their game'..............and I feel like I've been proven correct on that matter.
If it was left up to the military.............it would be 'lights out'!!! But if it's left up to the politicians............it's 'eco-lights that don't work, and are hazardous, and dim, and useless........................and that is what Vietnam became!! Also Iraq!!! My father told me that the military is not the #1 leader in military activities any more.............and I guess he was right!!!
He also loved his country, but didn't trust the government.
killa..
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 2:53am.
By 1969-70 the war, generally speaking, had lost the support of both the Left and the Right although for different reasons and with the opposition expressed at different decibel levels.
I should note that the brilliant Lewis Sorley (here's a wiki bio) has argued that the war was still winnable by a well-equipped South Vietnamese army even as our force levels continued to be reduced in the early 70's. He blames Congress's pulling the financial plug for the ultimate success of the NVA and the fall of Saigon. [Sorley is also brutally critical of Westmoreland, laying a lot of responsibility at his feet for his utter ineptitude earlier in the conflict.)
Anyway, it was shocking to witness the lengths some of the guys were going to at the time in order to avoid the draft after graduation. Interestingly, I read a passage in the Maraniss book about Clinton years later stating the draft had been de facto suspended for several months prior to the lottery announcement in the fall of '69. If so, that was news to me. I may have to find a copy of the book and reread it because it's hard to believe I wouldn't have been aware of that fact in the summer of that year. The draft was a topic which dominated conversation back then.
During my final semester while I was spending most of my time with my girlfriend, two of my buddies were living in an apartment for which I was paying a third of the rent. I showed up one evening and they both were doing acid, one of them for the first time. He came over to me and whispered "Warner Brothers makes a better mousetrap." I decided it might be prudent to leave and hang out with my girlfriend a little longer, and when I returned several hours later I opened the door to an empty living room, fhe last piece of furniture--a sofa--having just been hurled over our second story balcony. The experience definitely had a cooling effect on any interest I might have otherwise had for LSD experimentation.
Interesting times.
Jer
One brother was an Army Ranger with three combat ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 2:03am.
tours in Nam.
Another brother was an Air Force Combat Controller with one tour in Nam.
Both came back stateside through either McChord AFB in Washington State or Hamilton AFB near San Francisco.
Both, having been spat both at and upon, would most heartily disagree with your belief that the "incidents were rare".
The Ranger arranged for a flower bedecked hippie to be decked; and the Combat Controller kicked one bozo's testicles into the following week.
Knowing my brothers, both "baby-killer" chanters got off fairly light.
MD
Well, Matthew, that's sad to hear...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 3:07am.
but glad to know they exacted appropriate retribution upon the offending punks.
I can only share my personal experience, and what others who had served in Vietnam told me about theirs.
Jer
True, Jer, as there are probably as many versions as ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 3:10am.
there are people to recount them.
MD
Draft Dodging Prez
Submitted by stratman on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:32pm.
Bill Clinton avoided the draft while performing in the missionary position, sometimes even with Hillary when he couldn't get away.
Good...
Submitted by jawebster1 on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 3:39am.
one!
Yep, that was funny. ---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 6:34pm.
Read it yesterday and it made me laugh; I was gonna comment on it, but I read through the rest of the thread and then got sidetracked.
That seems to happen a lot these days.
Dang !
MD
Thanks Guys
Submitted by stratman on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:02pm.
So many good posts on Newsbusters, from serious to seriously funny and everything in between. The forum is my favorite because of the articles and you all, my fellow members.
Gosh, I don't know what to say...
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:19pm.
other than "you're welcome, strat".
Wow. I'm blushing.
Jer
Cart Before The Horse, Jer
Submitted by stratman on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 12:04am.
As a Progressive I would think you would understand. I meant "all" in the Democrat sense - "some".
Great...I had already texted the news of your gracious
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 12:47am.
gesture to my son.
Now I have to retext him and confess that his dad got punked.
I hope you can live with yourself.
Jer
No Problemo Here
Submitted by stratman on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 1:48am.
I'm interviewing for a writer's job on Betty White's Off Their Rockers, where senior citizens prank unsuspecting young people, and will use this exchange as part of my resume. Maybe I can get you a job as one of the prankers. You're old enough, right?
Too old for me...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 3:11am.
Obviously not for the indefatigable Miss White.
Jer
Cover your
Submitted by bobsmom on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:37pm.
eyes folks...........so, Romney escaped the draft by accepting a "missionary" position.......then I would posit that Bashir escapes deportation by assuming the "bend over" position.
And
Submitted by bobsmom on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:39pm.
(sorry, I thought I was done), for a societal demographic who was into hero worshiping draft dodgers during Nam, I think I need an explanation for the hate......not really.........but come on folks, my score book is getting tattered with trying to keep track of what you stand for moment to moment. By their own lights, anyone who DIDN'T get drafted was someone to be lauded, except if they're conservative. I get it.
WHO ARE THESE CLOWNS?
Submitted by JeremySmithColl on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 7:42pm.
I wonder who's letting these British subjects to come and spew their hate on our television... can they just be returned home with George Washington's boot right up their....
Who in the hell is Martin
Submitted by blazermaniac on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:02pm.
Who in the hell is Martin Bashir? If he is on PMSNBC, then it means "ZERO".
Please
Submitted by Unsane on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:05pm.
As if you Leftists remotely care about the military. If people like Mr. Bashir had their way, we wouldn't have one.
But then, I do remember the President whining early on in his regime that the United States spends as much as the rest of the world combined on its military so it could afford to do with less.
And you wonder why people around the world no longer look at this country with any fear.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Marty is a Male Version of SoulDad O'Brien
Submitted by ChrisNH on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:09pm.
Marty always looks livid and angry, just like SoulDad O'Brien always looks livid and angry. In fact, ALL leftist media hacks are this way. And why? Shouldn't they all be peeing honey? They have their beloved Obama in the white house. The reason why all Leftist Media Hacks are livid is because they realize that the failure of liberalism has been laid bare for all to see. When they railed at Bush, they could point to the 'promise' of a better America under Liberalism. But once Obama came along it was time to put up or shut up. In short, they've done neither: Libs didn't put up and they sure didn't shut up.
Well, ChrisNH, the
Submitted by texasborngranny on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 9:02am.
livid and angry look is not limited to members of the liberal media. I've found that it applies to 99% of the democrat/liberal/progressive/socialists that I encounter.
Get this imported commie POS SOB the F out of my country
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:36pm.
And don't even try to tell me this a-hole is a Christian, because I am having none of it.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Let the bashing of Romney officially begin.
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:47pm.
Obama of course, will say we shouldn't be asking these type of questions.
Meanwhile Bashir just received a happy face emoticon on his blackberry from obama.
Hey Basher
Submitted by cocodrie on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 8:54pm.
I understand you avoided the war by being a camel proctologist. Please go home to your camel lot.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Since you brought it up....
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 9:59pm.
Since Camels are called the "Ships of the Desert", wouldn't that mean that Bashir served in the Navy?
Editor's Note: The above post was severely altered from what was originally intended to be a retelling of a joke so vile that Kingfish17 surely would have been banned from NewsBusters for an indeterminate amount of time, if not for life.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Bzuh?
Submitted by ghidorah15 on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 11:47pm.
"Editor's Note: The above post was severely altered from what was originally intended to be a retelling of a joke so vile that Kingfish17 surely would have been banned from NewsBusters for an indeterminate amount of time, if not for life."
Is this serious or part of the joke?
Part of the joke
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Thu, 04/19/2012 - 8:38am.
It was part of the joke, which is pretty layered, and really only works if the reader knows the original vile joke, which I won't repeat, even if someone asks me in a PM.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Trying To Remember
Submitted by txradioguy on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 3:26am.
Someone help me out here...having a hard time remembering what branch of service Martin Bashir served in and when.
What's really funny is that
Submitted by texastommy on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 8:15am.
I'll bet Romney can pronounce "corpsman." And can probably tell what one does, too.
So, Martin...
Submitted by CobraMan on Wed, 04/18/2012 - 10:37am.
So, Martin, I take it you were amongst the first wave of British solders who took back The Falklands? What's that, you're a hypocrite? Why am I not surprised?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.