Hardballers Take Pot Shots At Bush Over Cambodia Comparison

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On Wednesday night's "Hardball" both substitute host Mike Barnicle and MSNBC's David Shuster took pot shots at the President over his stated concern about Iraq becoming a Cambodian-like massacre if the U.S. leaves too early. Substitute hosting for Chris Matthews, Barnicle blurted: "Do you think the President has ever read a book about Vietnam?" while Shuster sneered: "The mere mention of Vietnam and arguing for more sacrifice in Iraq is fraught with potential political peril. After all, President Bush didn't serve in Vietnam and Vice President Cheney received multiple deferments, telling reporters, a few years ago, that in the 1960s he had other priorities than military service.

The following is Shuster's full report, followed by Barnicle's belittling of Bush as they took place on the August 22nd 5pm edition of "Hardball":

David Shuster: "35 years after America was torn apart by the 58,000 U.S. troops killed in the Vietnam War, today President Bush reopened the wounds. He argued to veterans in Kansas City that the United States got out of Vietnam too soon."

George W. Bush: "One unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens."

Shuster: "The President's speech, designed to bolster his argument for staying in Iraq was remarkable politically and because of the President's take on history."

Bush: "I think many argue that if we pulled out there would be no consequences for the Vietnamese people."

Shuster: "And just a few sentences later."

Bush: "In Cambodia the Khmer Rouge began a murderous rule in which hundreds of thousands of Cambodians died by starvation and torture and execution."

Shuster: "But it's a fact that the murderous rule in Cambodia began well before the U.S. withdrew from Southeast Asia and many historians argue that the United States made the violence worse by going into Cambodia and Vietnam in the first place."

Bush: "There's another price to our withdrawal from Vietnam."

Shuster: "The President then said the pull-out from Southeast Asia emboldened America's enemies. But he wasn't talking about our enemies at the time, including communists and the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Instead President Bush spoke of Osama Bin Laden, who mentioned Vietnam a few years ago while declaring America would be weak in fighting al-Qaeda."

Bush: "Some can argue our withdrawal from Vietnam carried no price for American credibility but the terrorists see it differently."

Shuster: "Bin Laden, however, is running al-Qaeda from somewhere along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, not from inside Iraq. Furthermore the President's argument today, is at odds with his view of the Iraq war a view years ago. A year into the war, as the insurgency was growing and the U.S. death toll was rising."

Reporter to Bush: "How do you answer the Vietnam comparison?"

Bush from April 23, 2004: "Yeah, I think the analogy is false. I also, happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops and sends a wrong message to the enemy."

Shuster: "In just four weeks President Bush will deliver his report to Congress on the progress the administration sees in Iraq. And with Iraq making no political progress, the Bush administration is increasingly touting security efforts. But President Bush is on the defensive and under enormous pressure and today, while trying to show support for embattled Iraqi leader Nouri Al-Maliki, the President delivered a mixed message in the same sentence."

Bush: "Prime Minister Maliki is a good guy, a good man, with a difficult job and I support him. And it's not up to the politicians in Washington D.C. to say whether he will remain in his position."

Shuster: "However Democrats were most concerned and angry today about the President's invocation of Vietnam. Senator John Kerry called it quote, ‘As irresponsible as it is ignorant of the realities of both wars. Half the soldiers whose names are on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after the politicians knew our strategy would not work. The lesson is to change the strategy not just change the rhetoric.' White House officials expected the criticism today and were so convinced that invoking Vietnam would help make their case about Iraq that they mailed out excerpts of the President's speech last night. Still, the mere mention of Vietnam and arguing for more sacrifice in Iraq is fraught with potential political peril. After all, President Bush didn't serve in Vietnam and Vice President Cheney received multiple deferments, telling reporters, a few years ago, that in the 1960s he had other priorities than military service. I'm David Shuster for Hardball in Washington."

...

[On screen headline: "Vietnam: The Sequel?"]

Mike Barnicle: "First up, Vietnam: Apocalypse Today, the sequel. In a speech to the VFW today, President Bush compared the U.S. war in Iraq to a previous controversial U.S. war fought in Southeast Asia - Vietnam. You might remember that, boys and girls. Drawing a comparison between the two wars, Bush is arguing that an early pull-out from Iraq will create agony for millions of innocent people, just like the millions who suffered when United States forces pulled out of Vietnam in 1975. So the question is, is Iraq Vietnam all over again and what does the President have to gain by opening old wounds? And I'd add a third question there, and we'll start with Joan Walsh. Do you think the President has ever read a book about Vietnam?"

—Geoffrey Dickens is the senior news analyst at the Media Research Center.


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If the topic is Cambodia...

then shouldn't that read "took Pol Pot shots at George W. Bush"?

Defeat

The parliament has passed some 60 pieces of legislation as well as creating a process for the distribution of oil revenues. The military progress has reached heights beyond lib comprehension. At this point the leftists are simply dividing not knowing which way is up.

How can this progress be compared to the Cambodia blood bath? 

JDW

News media: Scoreboard for terrorists

 

Well, one thing that I can

Well, one thing that I can guaranty is that if we Surrender/strategic withdraw to Guam/ phased pull out as the libbies want, then the blood will flow ala Cambodia.

 

There have been nearly 1

There have been nearly 1 million Iraqis killed due to the occupation of that country. It can't get much worse. This figure does not include US & insurgency casualties. Check out the Lancet medical magazine.

 MJB, that Lancet article

 MJB, that Lancet article has been debunked time and time again.  If you want to spout marxist/lib talking points, at least try to come up with some fresh ones.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

Ingrate

Our resident favorite whiny ingrate strikes again.  How many millions in Europe died because the United States had to purge the continent of the Nazis? 

How many millions of Japanese died on the Home Islands? 

Guess what?  Both are thriving areas of the world, and at peace. 

But of course, to ingrates like yourself, you are supposed to have every single thing served to you on a silver platter, without cost.

Besides, I love seeing how much you scream and cry over that alleged figure, yet not a PEEP from you over the millions killed by Saddam Hussein, both in his country and elsewhere.  But then, Nothing Bad Ever Happens On The Left, correct?   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

MJB:In order for that

MJB:

In order for that casualty figure to be accurate, one out of 25 Iraqi's would have to have been killed in the last four years.

According to the most recent 2007 census of the country, the actual death rate is----  Drum roll please----- 5.26 deaths/1,000 population.  Anybody wanna do the math?

That includes all the guys who were killed by US and insurgent actions as well as crashed cars, had incurable cancer, accidentally fell off roofs during housefires etc.

My math does not show "One million Deaths" in five years.  NOT BY A LONG SHOT. 

In fact, to get to the one million deaths caused by US occupation, you would have to have 684 deaths per day.  I never saw a casualty rate that high DURING THE MONTH-LONG INVASION.

Oh, where to

Oh, where to start... 

Shuster: "But it's a fact that the murderous rule in Cambodia began well before the U.S. withdrew from Southeast Asia and many historians argue that the United States made the violence worse by going into Cambodia and Vietnam in the first place."

Actually, the Khmer Rouge was arming itself in the areas west of the centeral highlands using weaponry provided by the communists.  The actual take over of the KR did not happen until after the invasion of the south by the PAVN.  STRIKE ONE!

Shuster: "The President then said the pull-out from Southeast Asia emboldened America's enemies. But he wasn't talking about our enemies at the time, including communists and the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Instead President Bush spoke of Osama Bin Laden, who mentioned Vietnam a few years ago while declaring America would be weak in fighting al-Qaeda."

Hell, even the press doubts the US national resolve to fight a long protracted battle just because of our experience in Vietnam. Hell, we have lost less than 4000 troops so far in the GWOT and the lefties are already characterizing it as losses greater than Vietnam.  STRIKE TWO!

Shuster: "Bin Laden, however, is running al-Qaeda from somewhere along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, not from inside Iraq. Furthermore the President's argument today, is at odds with his view of the Iraq war a view years ago.

How is this material?  STRIKE THREE!!!  But we will let him play on a bit.

Shuster: "However Democrats were most concerned and angry today about the President's invocation of Vietnam. Senator John Kerry called it quote, ‘As irresponsible as it is ignorant of the realities of both wars. Half the soldiers whose names are on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after the politicians knew our strategy would not work.

Hell, the US had won the war by the start of the 1970's.  THE VC - destroyed.  The NVA Bloodied to point of ten pins in every single engagement.  Progress everywhere but in the US Congress, in the press and on campuses.  So, how as our strategy not working??????  Strike Four!!!!!!!

Mike Barnicle: Do you think the President has ever read a book about Vietnam?"

Boy, don't the libs get upset when you remind that of the agony that the tye dyed hippie generation foisted upon the world discarded to international communism in the 1970's.

Have I ever read a book on the war in Vietnam?  Actually, my Thesis was on the US incursion of Cambodia.  So, I guess I HAVE MIKE!!!!

Mike

Non biased source

Good points BD.  Pol Pot was influenced by the communist Chinese and the Khmer Rouge was given arms and training by the North Vietnamese.  Nice to see Schuster throw in the blame the US for the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot quote wasn't it.

Here is a good short link about Pol Pot from Encylopedia Britannica.  They don't seem to throw anything in there about blaming the US for everything in this short summary.  Maybe Shuster should try learning some things from non biased sources rather than blaming the US for everything. 

Maybe Shuster thinks the Tet Offensive was a brilliant win for Giap and the VC. 

http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9375575/Pol-Pot

"I'm a man of means by no means, King of the Road"  'King of the Road'

 

Here's another Time

Here's another Time Magazine article which seems to be non biased as well.  It talks about the North Vietnamese suppyling arms and training to the Khmer Rouge as well as Pol Pot visiting China and being influenced by them.   I wonder why Shuster didn't place any blame on China or the North Vietnamese. 

 

 http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990823/pol_pot1.html

 

The Past As Prologue?

An interesting quote from your linked article:

The ruthlessness with which he pursued his intention to return to “year zero” and create an ethnically pure, agrarian, communist state resulted in the deaths of one to two million people.

Replace "ethnically" with "liberally" and "AGW and Environmental Activists" for "he" for an updated look into a chilling potential future.

Killing them with kindness isn't working.  Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.

Uggh

I just get so tired of this. Could we just split the country in two, let them destroy themselves and then reunited the country? Just imagine...a duct tape line right down the middle of the country.

 "The mere mention of

 "The mere mention of Vietnam and arguing for more sacrifice in Iraq is fraught with potential political peril..."

Yeah, "peril" from you guys in the MSM...

 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

How long do you think the

How long do you think the war is going to take? 

Balboa, If I knew that, I

Balboa,

If I knew that, I wouldn't be sitting here typing. I'd be making real money, either advising the President or performing at the circus. 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Lol. OK, next question: The

Lol. OK, next question: The longer it goes, will it be harder to support it? Do you think you'll start to question why it's taking so long? (Of course understand that I want a "neat, tidy little ending" with a bow on top, plus sunshines, lollipops, puppy dogs...)

Bal,

LOL?

This isn't even a remotely funny subject.

The longer it goes....certainly it's harder to support if you're an instant gratification type (you're a lib, don't bother to reply to that).

I'll never start to question why it's taking so long.  When it started, I figured I'd not see the end of it in my lifetime.  Which is why I'm optomistic.  It's going much better than we've any right to expect.

Any other questions you'd like to ask of an adult? 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

what war are we talking

what war are we talking about here?

WOT? A long time...

Iraq? Already won...

War on poverty? Still going...

TM, Take your

TM,

Take your pick....it's Bal who's posing the questions.

He'll snark back with whatever makes him look least stupid for asking that inane question.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I think Bal is really

I think Bal is really thinking about the issues here.  Sure, he reminds me of Juan Williams most of the time, but in his favor I've noticed he's been asking some real pointed; objective questions lately.

IMO, he's testing for facts and opinions to weigh his own conclusions.  That's not only the right thing to do, but it brands him as something more than a typical lib-troll.

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07 

trach

I'm going to disengage from this entire "bal" post about the war.

It infuriates me.  Snarky comments about a serious subject.  It's been the modus operandi for eons.  Boring and inane.

I shouldn't have commented at all.  So I'm done.  You all carry on w/Bal if it floats your boat.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

The "Lol" was for CN's

The "Lol" was for CN's comment about working at the circus, if you'd follow more closely. Simmer.

You SERIOUSLY think we'll be at war for your whole life? And you wouldn't question that? WOW. That's...generous.

Bal, Don't get your

Bal,

Don't get your knickers in a twist over my reading comprehension skills.

I got it.  And you.

Yes, I do believe it will go on for my lifetime.  If you don't, you seriously understimate the intent of the islamojihadists.

That's okay, though, Bal.  Just sit back and relax.  We have several hundred thousand dedicated members of our military to protect you.  You just might want to think about thanking them, once in a while.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I do.  I really agree with

I do.  I really agree with Blonde on this.  It's been said numerous times by experts on both sides of the political spectrum that this is a new kind of warfare.  The end to the war in Iraq would be a strategy that hasn't been cooked up yet, because really winning in Iraq would be a blueprint for winning the war on terror everywhere else.

I also do not believe the Bush administration is looking for a "win" in the same sense as their backward-looking political opponents.  This is an ideological war; not a traditional border war per se. 

Thus, it can only be won by making Iraq able to fight the war on terror by themselves.  The plan is to teach them to fight extremists by themselves.

This is why I believe Bush when he says it will probably continue long after he's out of office.  This is also why the "Bush hate" fad is so misguided, because there won't be any more scapegoats come '08.  Liberals don't seem to understand that they're on the clock here with their blame game.

-PJ  

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07 

I think that terrorism will

I think that terrorism will never be completely eradicated, but that victory is in how well we're able to contain terrorism, stifle its money, cut off its arms deals, thwart their intel efforts.

just make sure not to listen

just make sure not to listen in on their phone calls.

I don't think anyone's

I don't think anyone's really advocating that. 

bal... If we had the

bal...

If we had the technology, would you be against killing the terrorist's while they are on the phone by sending a high voltage charge through the telephone line? 

Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html

Nope. But that sounds way

Nope. But that sounds way too James Bond to actually exist.

Blonde, To be fair, I

Blonde,

To be fair, I think Balboa was responding to my flip response regarding my inability to predict the future. 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Bal,What can I say? War

Bal,

What can I say? War is messy, horrible, and totally undesireable. It doesn't go according to a script. I don't think we are in a war, by the way. We are in a terrorist situation. The war objectives were accomplished - Sadam was deposed and a democratic government was elected. The war's aftermath - the fight against the post-war terrorists to build a stable government and country is another matter. I have no idea how long we will have to stay. I suspect that we'll at least need a presence in Iraq for years - as in Korea.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Good point about war

Good point about war objectives and not really being in a war right now. I definitely anticipate an American "presence" in Iraq for many years. 

I would like us to be able to scale back and Iraq step up more in the near future. I appreciate your answers.

Despite our political

Despite our political differences and my professed annoyance with some of your questions, that was very gracious of you. Which is one reason why I discuss things with you.  

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

bal

It will take as long as it takes.  That's the thing about wars.  As much as you liberals would like to have nice, neat, tidy endings....that's not reality.

Even your good pal Hillary now is publicly saying she'd keep troops in Iraq if she were elected.

So what was your point again? 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde, Good answer. I

Blonde,

Good answer. I was going to say that. Really. 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

"It will take as long as it

"It will take as long as it takes. That's the thing about wars. As
much as you liberals would like to have nice, neat, tidy
endings....that's not reality."

Bingo! It would be nice if we could wrap them up in 2 hours like they do in Hollywood, but sadly, it doesn't work that way in the real world.

Here's another newsflash: leaving Iraq, just for the sake of leaving, won't end the war.

"in 2 hours like they do in

"in 2 hours like they do in Hollywood"

Not what I was expecting would happen. 

Okay, Balboa...What Shoud Happen?

Your prior posts have me totally disgusted.

But you were the one who first posed the question.  Let me throw it back at you.....

How long do you think it will take to win this war?

And I'd appreciate not only an answer, but your analysis of why you think that to be the answer, also your optimal strategy to ensure it goes the way you think it should.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

"Not what I was expecting

"Not what I was expecting would happen."

Never said it was. My point was quite clear, even though you decided to ignore it. Asking how long the war should last is like asking how long is a piece of string.

Many libs do seem to imply that there is some script that dictates how wars go, and if only Bush would stick to the script, this war would be over by now. I'll say it again: It would be nice if it worked that way, but sadly, it does not.

Well, I think the comments

Well, I think the comments of administration members have been jumped on and thrown back at them, fueling criticism. And many people didn't think going into Iraq was a good idea, and the longer an elevated presence goes on, the more they're going to find things to criticize. 

I do think some of the criticism is pointless, but I think some of it is needed.

 

As Long As It Takes

 Blonde,  you could not have hit the nail on the head any better if you used a 12 pound maul.  Like the Japs before them, we must take the fight out of these mooslims, we have to make them not want to die anymore.  My eldest son is on his second tour in Iraq, we are winning, we will continue to win.  To do or think otherwise is not only un-American it is anti-American. We must fight these rascals where we find 'em. 

And I do not give a rodents bleeding red butt if anyone thinks it's wrong of me to think this way.  These people will understand when they are slowly eliminated from humanity, it is what they have wrought on themselves and I say, tough. Is this clear enough for any of the libs out there?

""There have been nearly 1

""There have been nearly 1 million Iraqis
killed due to the occupation of that country. It can't get much worse.
This figure does not include US & insurgency casualties. Check out
the Lancet medical magazine."

And when you're finished with that, read "The Wizard of Oz" for proof that scarecrows can talk, and lions are 'fraidy cats.

Bush reopened the wounds?

Bush reopened the wounds?

David Shuster: "35 years after America was torn apart by the 58,000 U.S. troops killed in the Vietnam War, today President Bush reopened the wounds.

Oh give me a break. Just a few months back, Gary Trudeau, of Doonsbury fame, opened one when he blamed most of the deaths in Vietnam on President Richard Nixon. Does he know who LBJ is? Besides, the wounds of Vietnam are opened up almost every day around the country, by radical teachers in liberal universities, and by the media wanting to compare it to Iraq.

Gary,

Lying liars.

"Clearly, we've entered the surreal, here Mike" ~ Captain John Miller, Saving Private Ryan. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde, Though your label

Blonde, Though your label is Franken-esque, it is very fitting for these ba$tard$.Lies Lies Lies. These lefty MSMers have ben salivating for Bush to bring up VietNam, and now have pounced on it and criticized in every concievable way.

I must say the comments I heard the President make, were very pertinent, and nailed the lame assertions of the lefty ninnies that have been crying about this war on terror. They will never get it. They are not "wired" to be able to comprehend defeating an enemy who wishes to kill your way of life. Just as the Left has yet to figure out how wrong VietNam went, they have no concept of what the right thing to do about Iraq is.

I heard  a Kerry soundbite today that about made me ill. What a lamo loser, and he is one of their "leaders"? funny, if it were not so dangerous and pathetic.

VT, You are the first to

VT,

You are the first to comment on my new tag.

I quoted U.J. from over at Blackfive.net.  From last weekend.  It was a wicked send-up, UJ "filling in" for Tony Snow as White House press sec.

But I really liked the quote.

My question is....HOW LONG HAS THIS BEEN GOING ON?  I mean, before we became cognizant of it?

I've been here on NB for a year and a half...and before that, I was one of those who blithely believed the MsM.  And I'm a conservative....but I just never imagined that the media LIED!

So, if it took me this long to catch on....how long will it take for the rest of America to get it?  Seriously?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Good Question

 Liberals want Vietnam, on their terms.  They want it remembered as Nixon's/Republicans war and forget about LBJ.  They've put out this tripe that Johnson would have pulled out of Vietnam, had he run for re-election and won, although there's no proof of that. They also claim Kennedy, had he lived, would have never gotten involved, to the extent that Nixon (or LBJ if they have to admit it) got.  The Liberals write it, and the Amen chorus in the media, lets them get away with it. 

SO, no more comparisons unless, of course, they're the ones Democrats want. 

 

Never argue with an idiot.  They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Have 40 year wars for peace.

We should have stayed another 40 year in Nam, by now everyone would be dead; there would be a lasting peace.

Let's do the same in Iraq, 40 years and out.

Make everyone go to pro Iraq war rallies, not to send the wrong message to our enemies. Anything else would be treason.

That's childish, Watchman

But your childish attempt at sarcasm is actually true. 

The left has encouraged our enemies in Iraq, just as they did in Viet Nam.

RJ... Your statement is

RJ...

Your statement is dead-on accurate.

The loony left and the liberal MSM share responsibility in the amount of people that are getting killed in Iraq. 

Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html

Violence

Well, at least you have learned that Violence Works Every Single Time It Is Tried. 

You know, I thought about typing the tagline in English just for you, but considering you are the same BFI who contends that Hugo Chavez is "not a dictator", that would probably just kill you with confusion and frustration.  So, have it in Latin.  

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

The President really gave

The President really gave 'em hell today.

Et plebs tua laetabitur in te.

Yes, Watchman

Your childish sarcasm aside, it was an excellent speech.

It's not just liberals who

It's not just liberals who have yearned for 'tidy endings' to military entanglements.  

The concept has been a crucial element of the Powell Doctrine which was enunciated over a decade before the current Iraqi conflict, and espoused by conservatives since the Reagan administration.   And even assuming that "9/11 Changed Everything", are there no contingencies which would force a revision of the view that "the war will take as long as it takes" requiring a continued military presence "for a lifetime'?  What if...

--the situation disintegrates into full-scale sectarian warfare, or

--the establishment of a stable central government not only continues to prove illusive, but becomes so improbable that partitioning the country might be the only viable alternative, or

--the suppression of the insurgency would require a tripling of manpower which would stretch our military beyond the breaking point unless the draft were reinstituted, or

--the random killing of our troops simply contiuned at the present pace with no end in sight, or

--it were to become obvious that our ongoing presence in Iraq was fueling intense hatred in the Moslem and Arab world radicalizing even moderates to such an extent that tens of thousands of Islamic terrorists were created, posing a threat to our security for generations

Is it just 'stay the course' no matter what?

Jer

Jer, your worst case scenarios

have been made more possible by the behavior of the left.  

The left should now accept the results of their actions....but we all know they won't.

Well, Jer

Our "oh so cordial" liberal scolder is back.

Care to cherry pick another of my posts, Jer?

I could hardly care less about the "Powell Doctrine".  Colin Powell was the reason GWI wasn't a total success....had we pressed it to the max, there would have been no need for the second war. 

Colin Powell was a political general.  The highest command he ever held was a Brigade.  Not even a division.  He wasn't a troop leader, he was a brown nosed scum sucker who played up his background and led us down the merry path to Kerry-like flip flopping.  Twice. 

And George W. Bush was stupid enough to let him back into a position of power where he undercut the power and authority of the United States of America....AGAIN.

Stormin Norman (a real leader...a leader of men & women...if you don't believe me...go read up on it) wanted to throttle the man.

So, Jer, nice try.  But your initial premise is faulty.

The war will take as long as it takes....however much you liberals don't like it....remember my words when they nuke your city...or that of your son or daughter.

 

Blonde, having read your

Blonde, having read your previous posts about Powell, I'm very familiar with your opinion of him, so the refresher course isn't necessary.  My reference was to the Powell doctrine and its relevance, if any, to an Iraqi exit strategy--not whether he is or is not a "brown nosed scum sucker". 

Sorry if you feel I cherry-picked your post.  I thought the phrase I quoted seemed to sum up your views fairly succintly.  If not, you're welcome to correct any misimpression. 

Finally, my paramount concern is national security, and the promotion of policies which will hopefully produce a safer world for my son and future generations.  I'm just not so sure our involvement in Iraq is properly addressing that concern.

Jer 

Jer, It's not a matter of

Jer,

It's not a matter of whether or not I "feel" you cherry picked my post.  You admitted it.  Don't make me hunt that down, I'm tired. 

If you insist, however, I shall, and I'll prove it.  But you know you did.   Whatever.

As to your last, that's fair enough.  I think you're wrong.  It's absolutely in our national interest, IMO, to hunt down the terrorists where they live, rather than allowing to hunt us down in our own back yards.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde, I thought you were

Blonde, I thought you were implying that I was cherry picking one of your comments in this thread.  Of course I recall my objections and your responses concerning what I thought were unfair comments about Leon in a previous thread.  You don't have to hunt down anything.  I think we ended up agreeing that each of us would stand by our remarks.

Jer

Jer

Jer,

I feel I am very fair person. I know which post you are referring to.I have defended Leon in he past and you are right about what you said about Blonde calling Leon those names, but Leon would not answer the question, when he was asked many times why it was okay to attack one of our allies. What do you think Jer. Do you think it would be okay to invade Pakistan?

Hi Shawn.... Invade

Hi Shawn....

Invade Pakistan?  Pretty sure I answered that in the previous thread.  But, in a word, "No".

Jer

bingo Jer

Exacly Jer, you answered the question directly. As much as I like Leon, everytime he was asked if it was okay to attack an ally like Pakistan, Leon just kept saying that Pakinstan was not Ally. It must have been awfully frustrating to not get a direct answer.

Answers

There are no set answers.You dont know what contingencies the military has.If they were sharing with you please pass it on.This isnt hollyweird with a script.Things change and the military will have to adjust to it.As my brother says Semper Gumby.Always flexible.Its a Marine thing.We used another saying in the Army but I think I will get banned if I post it.

As far as Islamic terrorist.Sorry but they have been around long before Iraq.There is a hate for the West.It just the way it is.Newsflash there are Arabs and Muslims they are prejudice.They hate anybody they doesnt follow their beliefs.Do you think the Armernians were killed because the Turks knew in the future there would be Americans in Iraq?

Anyhoo glad to see your wrist has healed and you are able to type.Well maybe..J/k

 

Info on

things that you'll never get the answer for from John Kerry.

" Senator John Kerry called it quote, ‘As irresponsible as it is
ignorant of the realities of both wars. Half the soldiers whose names
are on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after the politicians knew our
strategy would not work. "

A. What his real military record says?

B. How many names are on the Vietnam Memorial Wall because of the efforts of Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark, Walter Cronkite, John Kerry and every other American leftist North Vietnamese terrorist supporter?

C. Why the NorthVietnamese officer who accepted the surrender of Saigon claimed that the North Vietnamese could count on American leftists to defeat the Americans? Were promised made and kept? <a href="http://www.viet-myths.net/buitin.htm">Article

"

Question: How did Hanoi intend to defeat the
Americans?

Answer:
By fighting a long war which would break their will to help South
Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh said,
"We don't need
to win military victories, we only need to hit them until they
give up and get out."

Q: Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi's
victory?

A: It was
essential to our strategy. Support of the war from our rear
was completely secure while the American rear was
vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen
to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the
growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by
people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark
and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold
on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated
when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press
conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war
and that she would struggle along with us."

D. Why would any American meet (as a civilian) in Paris with an enemy that was killing American soldiers in Vietnam?

 

 

 

we must guard against the

we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex...
Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing
of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our
peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper
together

(David Shuster: "35 years

(David Shuster: "35 years after America was torn apart by the 58,000 U.S. troops killed in the Vietnam War, today President Bush reopened the wounds. He argued to veterans in Kansas City that the United States got out of Vietnam too soon.")

I don't like to speak like this but DavidShuster is an ass.He is only outsurpassed by Chris Matthews who is the Mother of all asses.

Democrats think that they own Viet Nam and only they can make the comparisons.

They cannot stand that Bush throws the defeat that they fought so hard for back in their face and makes them look at it.

The killing fields are always the part of Viet Nam they leave out when they speak about it.

 

Victory in Iraq.

Newt for President.

Military Service

 After all, President Bush didn't serve in Vietnam and Vice President Cheney received multiple deferments, telling reporters, a few years ago, that in the 1960s he had other priorities than military service.

I thought lack of military service wasn't an issue when it came to being President? Oh, that's right.. when Klinton was President it wasn't an issue.

Has Mike Barnicle Ever Plagiarized a Book About Vietnam

Why is Barnicle even on this network? He is a plagiarist who stole work from the likes of comedian George Carlin and other columunists. He got fired for it. If a plagiarist gets caught shouldn't their career suffer?

MSM Heroes

No. He is celebrated as a hero by journalists of the leftist media.